Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

hightimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 583 posts

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#571

Post by tomhow »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #95
tehjoker wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The senate was explicitly designed to provide a brake on the democratic aspirations of the lower classes by the founders. American government is a system of baffles designed to frustrate democratic will and preserve the property and political control of elites. The senate should be abolished along with the undemocratic supreme court (as currently constituted with lifetime appointments and the ability to overrule cong…

>American government is a system of baffles designed to frustrate democratic will The "democratic will", like the people who manifest it, is so bizarrely stupid that there are no insults strong enough to properly insult it. If it can be tolerated at all, then it is so only when there are brakes strong enough to slow it down and force it to think carefully. >To be honest, we need a new constitution that promotes democ…

Please don't fulminate or make personal attacks on HN, no matter who or what you're replying to. The guidelines make it clear we're aiming for something better here, and we've had to ask you several times to try harder to observe them. We eventually have to ban accounts that keep commenting like this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#572

Post by smcin »

georgemcbay wrote: post #432
smcin wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're referring to "abolish the Senate filibuster rule"? recent lobbying.

Its more about abolishing the premise of the Senate where every state gets 2 senators regardless of their population. (Though the filibuster issue is also a valid debate lately) The founders had decent intentions for this design, but I'm fairly sure the vast majority of them would have changed their mind if they knew just how concentrated the population of the US would end up and how the system would act to give the…

Ah ok, I hadn't noticed there was also recent discussion on the Senate itself, wrt not being numerically representative.

People often say stuff like "the founders would have changed their mind if they knew just how concentrated the population would end up [wrt representation]", but they don't propose anything specific or constructive (short of federal-state litigation, secession or another civil war). How about a (neutral) commission to reapportion State boundaries every 10 years based on Census results (with some population formula between not-quite-linear and wildly disproportionate)? Or else, to periodically reapportion state counts of Senators to total 100. (Obviously these couldn't get ratified these days, but they just might have in the 1790s). If not, what's your specific suggestion?

Another thing people aren't currently discussing much is how badly break down if/when the Supreme Court gets captured by a dominant group that is both ideological and not independent. Look at how high the stakes will be for nominating the eventual replacement to Justice Clarence Thomas/Sotomayor/etc.

And of course the terrible Citizens Utd ruling muddies every consideration of representation.

And then there's also the parallel discussion of the Senate filbuster rule, remember though that if there was no filibuster, Citizens Utd would allow unlimited dark money to influence every vote, specifically all the action would focus on the Senators in the middle, think Joe Lieberman, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Manchin, Sinema. Seems near-impossible to reconstruct democracy under these constraints. (Look at the recent Senate stealth attack in the shutdown bill by lobbyists for newly-legalized CBD to try to ban Hemp).

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#573

Post by billy99k »

viraptor wrote: post #212
billy99k wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Legalizing drugs has only created larger black markets in states like California and allowed cartels to legally get into the business and gain more power in other countries.

Can you explain how legalisation created larger black markets? Got some stats for that?

Sure. Black markets are cheaper than legal weed, because they don't have to pay taxes due to heavy regulations.

There have been multiple studies in Colorado and California that have shown that black markets aren't shrinking, but expanding.

Legal weed and other drugs creates more demand, and the black market picks up these extra customers.

This was easily predicted by me and many other people, before legalization.

I suppose it's why I'm making more money than ever in this economy and most other people are getting laid off.

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#574

Post by fragmede »

billy99k wrote: post #573
viraptor wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how legalisation created larger black markets? Got some stats for that?

Sure. Black markets are cheaper than legal weed, because they don't have to pay taxes due to heavy regulations. There have been multiple studies in Colorado and California that have shown that black markets aren't shrinking, but expanding. Legal weed and other drugs creates more demand, and the black market picks up these extra customers. This was easily predicted by me and many other people, before legalization. I s…

Fascinating. I don't doubt your experience but I wonder where you are and which segment you're in. What I've heard is that it's the opposite for growers in California. Where weed previously went for $4,000/lb, it now goes for $400/lb.

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#575

Post by seec »

billy99k wrote: post #573
viraptor wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how legalisation created larger black markets? Got some stats for that?

Sure. Black markets are cheaper than legal weed, because they don't have to pay taxes due to heavy regulations. There have been multiple studies in Colorado and California that have shown that black markets aren't shrinking, but expanding. Legal weed and other drugs creates more demand, and the black market picks up these extra customers. This was easily predicted by me and many other people, before legalization. I s…

Yes, I can believe that. We have the same problem with tobacco in France because it is too heavily taxed (black market is massive nowadays).

But that's really a government problem. They always pretend to tax stuff because it will slow the consumption but it never works, people keep using as much or even more if they get served on the black market that doesn't have to answer to regulation and taxation.

All of this is very well known, you just can't regulate drugs consumption, the only thing that works it social pressure but since governments have no say/power in that they pretend otherwise.

It's all very hypocritical, the only reason they legalise some stuff is because they want the tax money. Cannabis is heavily regulated because it is so simple to grow that there would be very little tax money to be made. You would just need to know someone who grow some in his garden, like tomatoes and around the time of harvest you would get massive oversupply.

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#576

Post by lazide »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #360
SoftTalker wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a widespread misunderstanding about what congresspeople do. They are not elected to represent the views of their constituents. Constituents, rather, elect those representatives whose agendas they most closely support. There's a subtle difference.

>They are not elected to represent the views of their constituents. Yet another thing I vehemently disagree with.

I guess it’s a question of semantics.

If a rep basically says ‘I don’t care what y’all say, I’m doing z’, and they get elected.

Does that mean they got elected because everyone wants z? Or they got elected, and plan to do z?

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#577

Post by bakies »

AngryData wrote: post #454
bakies wrote: post #31

Cannabis needs to be reclassified. I think this is the right thing to do, actually, but only if it came at the same time as reclassifying. This is a drug market that should be regulated, but not class 1.

Why should cannabis be regulated at all? 99.99% of problems with marijuana that ive ever seen or heard of stem from its either its illegality or its overzealous regulation.

I want the drugs I buy to be tested, is all

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#578

Post by theshackleford »

Shocka1 wrote: post #568
theshackleford wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From personal experience suffering from chronic pain cannabis is absolutely transformative. Like all drugs, it’s sad it doesn’t work this way for everyone. I had to transition from cannabis to opiates and lyrica. I wish this was not the case. They suspect it’s due to the source of the pain (spinal cord injury) and the cannabis is “exciting” my nerves in the wrong way, as it actually increases my pain; or at least m…

Selling it as a pain reliever I can't buy into personally based off my anecdotal experience. I've had chronic pericarditis for more than a decade now and THC amplifies mine as well, as I tend to focus more on the pain. I think it's a very subjective thing, depending on many factors; strain, type of pain, person, etc.

> I've had chronic pericarditis for more than a decade now and THC amplifies mine as well, as I tend to focus more on the pain.

This is a very apt description. It’s like it narrows my entire focus into the pain and it seems to become more…in focus.

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#579

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

unethical_ban wrote: post #410
rootusrootus wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ability to overrule congress at a whim That can be stopped easily enough. The Constitution makes it clear that Congress is the ultimate source of power; the SCOTUS power of judicial review was granted to itself by itself. Congress can (and has, a few times, though not often) make legislation not subject to judicial review.

The problem is that it is far, far more difficult for the legislature to "fix" a decision by SCOTUS than it is for SCOTUS to "fix" an unconstitutional law. Supermajorities in both houses + 3/4 of the states is unlikely to ever happen again unless we face an existential threat or civil conflict.

The funny thing is that the discussion we're having, about congressional representation, already has an amendment out there floating around, waiting to be ratified. Already has 11 or 12 states who have ratified it (I forget). It can't be canceled or expired or cockblocked. If you live in a state outside of New England, you could petition your state legislators to ratify it tomorrow. And if even one state were to ratify it, others would notice and follow.

It's not unlikely. It's just... I don't know. It's as if some Svengali is out there hypnotnizing you dolts to ignore it. No other explanation makes sense. Seriously, this could be down to 2-3 jackass state representatives in Iowa or New Mexico or Florida just getting a wild hair up their ass.

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#580

Post by oblio »

lazide wrote: post #540
oblio wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can move the goalposts as much as we like, but the Swiss have the closest approximation of a direct democracy in the world, right now. So before dreaming about 100% democracy, maybe the US could slide away from "flawed democracy", first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index#...

Sure, but who is going to be elected who would do that? And as has been quite apparent, since the most folks will do is peacefully protest if outside the voting system - and be ignored - how else is it going to change? And if either of those were working, we wouldn’t be complaining about this online anyway eh?

I highly doubt the US system can be fixed peacefully. I really wish it were, since the US affects a lot of the rest of the world (including where I live).
Post reply on HN