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Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#571

Post by wahnfrieden »

close04 wrote: post #569
wahnfrieden wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What counts as acting? This employee was openly self proclaimed Nazi, member of groups that spread explicitly Nazi ideology online, and the leader of a hate organization (previously led by Weev, the Stormfront administrator, who handed over the president position to them). I don’t understand quick defense of this.

> What counts as acting? Acting is doing something, as opposed to saying something. One of them counts as freedom of speech and hint, it's the one you quickly attacked. It's when you go to work and do your job as per the contract which can demand you not express certain opinions in the office but not in your private life. > I don’t understand quick defense of this. You are like those people who gagged Kimmel because…

This employee organized and led explicitly Nazi ideology hate campaigns. Freedom of speech applies to government. I still don't understand the need to hire organizers of Nazi hate campaigns that advocate for extermination, or (maybe you accept this though) for the responsibility of the public to avoid criticism or organizing boycott of businesses for hiring individuals that publicly advocate for exterminating them. The issue isn't illegality, or advocacy for anything in general, but public advocacy for extermination (of Jews, black people etc.), understanding that a government does not make that illegal (which I didn't advocate for changing).

The username is irrelevant and older than CloudFlare hiring Nazis

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#572

Post by bakies »

dwedge wrote: post #369
bakies wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

running email servers is a huge and terrible time sink

Have you tried it?

yeah I ran one for a while for myself and couldn't peer to any of the major email providers because they dont trust random email servers on the internet

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#573

Post by dwedge »

bakies wrote: post #572
dwedge wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried it?

yeah I ran one for a while for myself and couldn't peer to any of the major email providers because they dont trust random email servers on the internet

As long as you setup spf and dkim, and ideally reverse dns that matches the server mailname, the problems are greatly reduced

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#574

Post by sneak »

myrmidon wrote: post #570
sneak wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please continue to tell me how my refusing to hire cigarette smokers, functioning alcoholics, Floridians, people who don’t read books, or people who are overtly rabid about US patriotism is the same as embracing Nazi ideology. I’m quite curious about your logic here.

I'm not throwing around the Nazi analogy lightly here: Discrimination against outgroups/dissenters/opposition was basically the central domestic tenet under the Nazi Regime ("Gleichschaltung"), aiming to root out opposition and dissent in any form. A lot of this happened long before setting up extermination camps. In my view, every person is free to pick who they work or associate with, but hiring discrimination achi…

I’m not a government and I have no legal authority to build extermination camps. It’s not the same thing.

> A society where every progressive person refuses to hire rednecks is also a society where every redneck refuses to hire colored people, immigrants, LGBT people/advocates, feminists.

Yes, I’d like to live in that world. Freedom of association is a good thing, and a powerful force to shape the world for the better. If idiots want to kneecap their businesses, they should be allowed to.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#575

Post by wahnfrieden »

zahlman wrote: post #565
wahnfrieden wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the time they knowingly employed a Nazi

This is a serious accusation. What exactly is your evidence that they did any such thing? I can find nothing relevant in a search, only stories about the Neo-Nazi sites getting blocked.

Where can I DM it to you?

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#576

Post by zahlman »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #575
zahlman wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a serious accusation. What exactly is your evidence that they did any such thing? I can find nothing relevant in a search, only stories about the Neo-Nazi sites getting blocked.

Where can I DM it to you?

You may email it to me. I use this username, on the Proton email service.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#577

Post by array_key_first »

_heimdall wrote: post #556
array_key_first wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your identity as an asshole versus your actions as an asshole are really not too different. It doesn't matter much. If I know you have political views X, you already fucked up. This is a tree falling in the forest problem. You're claiming that somehow, magically, people are being discriminated by their political beliefs without ever acting on them or saying them. Okay how? How is that possible? If I know your politic…

If you know I have political view X, I have shared my view. That doesn't mean I have acted on them. Do you view holding or discussing a certain view as acting upon them? Is a distaste for Republicans in America today, for example, tantamount to acting on said distaste and assassinating someone?

> Do you view holding or discussing a certain view as acting upon them?

No, obviously, but they are an action. You can be fired for an action. Your action being a political one does not protect it. That is my point.

Me saying to my boss "I believe you're an asshole and you deserve to die* is an action. I am doing something - saying something distasteful.

That can get me fired. Period. And everyone agrees. No disagreement.

Okay, now I say to my boss "I believe Jews are assholes and they all deserve to die". Now it's political. And suddenly, there's disagreement.

The disagreement is very forced. This is extremely simple. Yes, you can be fired for that. Why? Because people don't like it. Nobody wants to work with people they don't like. It's very simple, very fundamental stuff about how humans work. Making it political doesn't change anything.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#578

Post by array_key_first »

zahlman wrote: post #566
array_key_first wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your identity as an asshole versus your actions as an asshole are really not too different. It doesn't matter much. If I know you have political views X, you already fucked up. This is a tree falling in the forest problem. You're claiming that somehow, magically, people are being discriminated by their political beliefs without ever acting on them or saying them. Okay how? How is that possible? If I know your politic…

> If I know you have political views X, you already fucked up. This is a tree falling in the forest problem. Yes, that's the exact point the other person is making. The resulting consequences are, and should be, a consequence of that fuck-up, and not a consequence of the value of X.

Ok, sure, but now the conversation is purely theoretical. What you're talking about is a situation that, by your own admission, cannot exist!

Because in order to punish me for being X, you have to know I'm X! But if you know I'm X, then I must have said it at some point! In which case, you're firing me for saying I'm X, not for being X!

If you're a republican and nobody ever knows, then you're not a republican. Again, it's a tree in the forest problem. You literally cannot be fired for being republican then, so it's indistinguishable from you not being republican.

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