4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program • Hacker News Board

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#571

Post by JeremyNT » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 3:53 AM UTC

nomel wrote: post #426

toomuchtodo wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s going to kill institutional knowledge and be so expensive to repair after regime change.

Ever org I've worked for slowly became unable to innovate because of "institutional knowledge". I think it's important to forget, to some extent, every once in a while. It forces a new traversal of the problem space, but in a modern context, with modern tools, fresh eyes, and a better understanding of what's needed. Thus we have Space X. There are some great interviews with Jim Keller, who has a similar perspective:…

But what are we even doing here? We have an entire political party that is anti science. This isn't some temporary setback, it's an ideology.

Is the future going to be completely defunding science for 4 (or 8) years and then whipsawing back to normal levels once the republicans lose power?

It seems like as long as the parties are close to popularity of each other and one party is explicitly anti science there is no way to build anything sustainable. This is no way to run a country.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#572

Post by dehrmann » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:15 AM UTC

potato3732842 wrote: post #463

gammarator wrote: post #441

Comments about SLS miss what’s happening. SLS is inefficient and wasteful, but human spaceflight is not what’s getting cut at NASA. Instead, very productive current and future science missions are getting killed, in defiance of Congress [1]. Until this year, NASA was the world leader in space science. We’re pushing out the experts who build and operate astrophysics missions like Hubble, Chandra, JWST, Kepler, TESS, S…

>but human spaceflight is not what’s getting cut at NASA. Instead, very productive current and future science missions are getting killed, in defiance of Congress [1]. Sounds like ye olde Sowell quote[1] about organizational priorities and budget cuts in action. [1] https://www.pennlive.com/opinion/2013/03/thomas_sowell_budge...

Bureaucracies like to grow, and they're very resistant to cuts, so they become inefficient entities poorly suited to current needs. Private companies have competition as a force that forces some amount of accountability, but I have yet to hear a strategy for effectively discontinuing work the government shouldn't be doing.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#573

Post by nothercastle » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:43 AM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #377

nothercastle wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it cap salary at 2000 levels then that you won’t be able to fill. That’s happening all over the federal government. The pay is so low the only way the compensation works is if employees do the bare minimum

Government employees have been getting COLAs. It just appears that the private sector has been giving larger increases and is subject to more competition. For example, as a developer you can job hop or negotiate raises in the private sector, but that doesn’t work in the public sector. I think inflation and wage growth in the covid era hit this especially hard. Why would I want to deal with DMV customers all day for $…

Also the high cost of living areas jobs don’t adjust appropriately for costs in the local areas. A post office job in the city pays almost as much as one in the middle of nowhere but the costs are radically different

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#574

Post by goku12 » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:52 AM UTC

cyphertruck wrote: post #540

gammarator wrote: post #441

Comments about SLS miss what’s happening. SLS is inefficient and wasteful, but human spaceflight is not what’s getting cut at NASA. Instead, very productive current and future science missions are getting killed, in defiance of Congress [1]. Until this year, NASA was the world leader in space science. We’re pushing out the experts who build and operate astrophysics missions like Hubble, Chandra, JWST, Kepler, TESS, S…

These cuts are absolutely not the ones I would make, but the reality is not as it is being portrayed. The claim that SpaceX does not do science is false. Not only do they launch most of NASA's science missions, which counts, they also do independent science, including the Polaris Dawn and FRAM 2. Along with Axiom, they put science missions on the ISS, and all the NASA science done on ISS is facilitated by SpaceX putt…

> but the reality is not as it is being portrayed.

This is exactly how anyone would describe your reply. Your claim is so bizzare and its logic so convoluted that the only reason I can imagine for it is political motivation. But I could be wrong and don't want to get into a flamewar. So let's ignore the reasons and reassess the logic instead. Most of the counter I can come up with are variations of what the other commenter replied, so I will leave that to them. Instead, let's look at why your argument never pans out.

Private companies always look for short to medium term profits, since it affects their balance sheets and ultimately their survival. That constraint isn't favorable for scientific research and science missions, because there is a long lead time for the research results to be converted into a commercially viable products. Some companies with a large product portfolio and steady profits still do some research, as long as it isn't too costly or time consuming. An example is the pharma industry.

But science involving the biosphere, atmosphere, astronomy/astrophysics, space, interplanetary missions etc are on the other end of that spectrum - extremely costly and no commercialization for the foreseeable future. The only way private industries are going to do it is if the government funds them with short term profits - in which case, it's the government's program, not the industry's. Even Musk's Mars dream is dependent on government funding in that manner, though his intent isn't science either. What makes you think the private industry will take it upon themselves to fund and conduct research that makes no economic sense?

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#575

Post by goku12 » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:54 AM UTC

ericvolp12 wrote: post #521

The article doesn't really do this justice, it's not really "opting to leave" it's that entire divisions inside the Science side of NASA have had their projects defunded and so all the work the people in those labs were doing is now gone. They're being asked to leave voluntarily so they don't have to be "fired" but all their work and resources are gone and they couldn't stay if they wanted to. A friend of mine had he…

Pardon my ignorance. But isn't it better to be laid off or fired than to resign, since the former entitles you to a few months of severance pay? Or is it different somehow under these circumstances?

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#576

Post by kamaal » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 5:00 AM UTC

gammarator wrote: post #441

Comments about SLS miss what’s happening. SLS is inefficient and wasteful, but human spaceflight is not what’s getting cut at NASA. Instead, very productive current and future science missions are getting killed, in defiance of Congress [1]. Until this year, NASA was the world leader in space science. We’re pushing out the experts who build and operate astrophysics missions like Hubble, Chandra, JWST, Kepler, TESS, S…

>>This is a loss of capacity that will set the US back a generation.

Many people grossly underestimate restarting a stopped process which took tremendous inertia to get rolling at the first place.

For all practical purposes its almost like you permanently lose the ability.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#577

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 5:10 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #537

godelski wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cuts to [...] are not really saving that much money, but are destroying literally trillions of dollars of future economic value I think everyone (or at least the parent) understands that. I mean there's a part that's deeply connected to what I said in another comment[0] The real issue is essentially: which would you rather have, $1 now or $10 tomorrow?[1] People see it as savings because they have that money no…

I'm pretty sure that neither money saved today or tomorrow are factors in these cuts. This administration is out to grief science and scientists--it doesn't matter if it saves money or costs money. The whole point is hostility to science. It's not an economic decision.

> administration is out to grief science and scientists

Is MAGA messaging on these NASA cuts?

My impression is these cuts are being done in the background. The beasts being fed are the military-industrial complex (specifically, its rotation from legacy providers to Silicon Valley) and ICE.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#578

Post by jschveibinz » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 5:43 AM UTC

There are some numbers to consider in this discussion--all of these are from data on the web:

1. Only Israel ($3,400) spends more per capita on R&D than the U.S. ($2,800) on R&D

2. The U.S. spent around $900 billion on R&D, with China estimated at $800 billion and the EU at $381 billion.

3. The per capita spending for other major economies:

- EU $850 per person - China around $700 per person (estimated) - South Korea $2,800 per person - Japan $1600 per person

(all roughly PPP adjusted)

Please check my estimates.

The point is that the U.S. spends a lot on R&D, so a haircut may not be bad for the health of U.S. R&D programs (new priorities) let alone the temporary reduction in expenses. The R&D output is still going to be enormous relative to the rest of the world and probably on par with China.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#579

Post by elcritch » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 5:49 AM UTC

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #570

elcritch wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile the USDA, FWS, and DOE do those pesky regulatory things True and that’s awesome. However to put up some of a counter those agencies also over-regulate. Bureaucracy tends to over-expand. Musks example of SpaceX having to calculate the likelihood of a rocket hitting a shark in the pacific. Musk is certainly exaggerating a bit, but is speaking to a real issue for many businesses struggling to keep up with ab…

Given Space Xs issues in the subsequent years with complying with environmental regulations, it doesn’t seem that ridiculous to me. It’s not as though the shark question was simply posed in a vacuum: it was part of a broader inquiry into potential impacts of launching rockets into space. And Space X wasn’t singled out. Blue Origin had to do the same paperwork, yet bezos didn’t feel the need to whine about it.

Well if the regulators are worried about sharks getting hit by a rocket, then they’re writing terrible environmental review requirements. It makes me skeptical that they’re going to do a good job protecting the environment if they’re asking such ill thought out questions.

Personally I’d hope for competent staff to be creating thoughtful valuable environmental impact surveys. Hence why the pushback on these agencies is valuable. Bureaucracies generally need some sort of pressure to, you know, do a competent job.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#580

Post by rockskon » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 7:11 AM UTC

crote wrote: post #494

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a bunch of organizations already utterly swamped with eager and qualified job candidates relative to their hiring numbers So....the same challenges that everyone working in the private sector has? What am I missing here?

Imagine if Google or Apple suddenly went bust. What do you think that would do to the job market in San Francisco?

NASA is still around. The layoff announcements for contractors at certain locations have been staggered as far as I know.

Still - it appears to be a tremendously hurdle for her to find alternate employment with her skillset in parts engineering without physically relocating - which would necessitate selling her house and her husband finding employment at the new region as well.