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AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

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Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#571

Post by gscott »

maxglute wrote: post #465
iammrpayments wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is so attractive to attempt the greatest amphibious assault in human history just to get an island with a bunch of people who will hate you and have nowhere to run away.

Political reunification, i.e. land > people, see PRC saying "keep the island not the people". At this point no amphibious assault needed, just blockading TW and turning into gaza via mainland munitions now that starving masses is normalized is an option too.

Taking the island gives China a large military advantage controlling access to Japan.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#572

Post by kelnos »

neon_me wrote: post #514
avhception wrote: post #342

If that is the cost of keeping the value within the western economies, we should pay. Plain and simple. I'd even argue it's cheap.

Cheap? 20% increase in cost of BoM equals at least ~100% increase for customer. Would you pay twice for AMD components? What would market do?

Companies charge what the market can bear, not based on their costs. Certainly they will often use some multiplier of their costs as a starting point, and they can't sustainably charge below their costs. But if they double the price of the product and lose more than half of their customers, that's a failure to set pricing properly.

Consider the reverse direction: if a company can decrease costs, they will usually pocket the extra profit, not reduce the price they charge. Price cuts usually only happen for one of two reasons: 1) to avoid losing customers to another company that is charging less (or to entice customers of another company that's charging the same), or 2) to capture more profit if they'll earn more customers at a lower price than they'll lose due to the lower per-unit profit. (Yes, there are other reasons, but these seem to be the main ones.

For goods that are not essential to life, prices are set based on what people are willing to pay vs. how many units can be sold at that price, with the cost as a floor (absent a policy of using a product as a loss leader).

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#573

Post by amelius »

patmcc wrote: post #405
amelius wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still TSMC's plant. I bet Taiwan has tight control over it.

I think the risk here is Taiwan being invaded by China, in which case having some US-based production helps a lot.

But do you think Taiwan will let the US get away with not helping them?

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#574

Post by anon7725 »

laborcontract wrote: post #452
IncreasePosts wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South Korea and Japan/Okinawa seem either just as good or better if the US wants to have bases near China. And the US already has 80k troops there

You have to take a look at a map to really understand Taiwan's importance. Taiwan isn't about military proximity. It's about access shipping access. Try open up a map. Despite China having a vast coastline, they do not have access to the open seas. Every one of their shipping lanes requires passage through another nation's waters. If a heavy conflict were to erupt, China's supply chains would be cut off via naval blo…

> Despite China having a vast coastline, they do not have access to the open seas.

I didn’t realize that Okinawa is halfway between the Japanese mainland and Taiwan, and the Japanese territorial waters extend right up to the Taiwanese EEZ on account of Japan’s far-flung southern islands.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#575

Post by kelnos »

michaelsshaw wrote: post #534
avhception wrote: post #342

If that is the cost of keeping the value within the western economies, we should pay. Plain and simple. I'd even argue it's cheap.

What special quality do "western" countries have that makes it a moral obligation to purchase from them over others? Why is it a moral good to keep value from the others?

For all their flaws (including those plaguing the US right now), I would still much rather live under a Western-style democracy than an autocracy.

Purchasing products made under autocratic regimes strengthens those regimes and gives them more power on the world stage.

I think "moral obligation" (a phrase the GP did not use, for the record) is a bit over the top, though.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#576

Post by tarkin2 »

fishsticks89 wrote: post #348
avhception wrote: post #342

If that is the cost of keeping the value within the western economies, we should pay. Plain and simple. I'd even argue it's cheap.

If something happens to Taiwan, we won't regret being able to produce these chips domestically. If AI keeps growing like it does, it might even trigger a conflict.

If something happens to Taiwan, the USA will have given a huge military advantage to its biggest adversary.

It's going to take decades for the USA to catch up with Taiwan, and once China has its grip on the fabs they'll only further advance them.

In an existential crisis, the chances of Taiwan's leadership doing a deal with China when it's military protector retreats from its former declarations is in no way low.

It'll be the end of American military dominance but in fitting with the US's repeated isolationist trajectory.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#577

Post by kelnos »

ulfw wrote: post #422
avhception wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not about national security. This is about being more than a simple consumer. If all your society does is consume, eventually, the money runs out. We need to have know-how, talent and all that stuff to create some value. We're bleeding all these things by the minute, and I don't want to be around when the critical point is reached.

What a ridiculous argument. So then every single country, every single city, every street should build their own chips, their own iPhones, right? Because wouldn't want to be "a simple consumer" only!

I think you're oversimplifying the argument in order to win internet points.

People of like minds and compatible values can and should work together and form agreements to allow each other to specialize in some ways and play to each others' strengths.

But in the West, our values are not compatible with the Chinese government's.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#578

Post by FirmwareBurner »

kennyadam wrote: post #543
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the reality behind the past relative world peace; international dependencies. Russia got away with a lot of shit because most of Europe thrived on their cheap gas and oil. Many countries are in debt with each other or have valuable assets (gold, nukes) stashed with each other.

It was a stated goal of the EU - peace through trade.

How did that work out?

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#579

Post by LinXitoW »

Nevermark wrote: post #512
basilgohar wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because in Western democracies we were very successful at stopping invasions such as Iraq x2, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, etc.

The fact that democracies make mistakes, isn't an argument against dictators having more carte blanche to make mistakes. Any form of government is going to make mistakes.

By your very own logic, I could argue that dictators have more carte blanche to make correct choices, where democracies are mired down by compromises and too many cooks in the kitchen.
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