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Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#571

Post by izacus »

inkyoto wrote: post #315
socalgal2 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are other options out there. This isn't about the a consumer's right to buy a different phone. It's about a business's right to do business with customers without Apple in the middle. And it's specifically about Apple's monopoly power over those businesses. No government is going to accept that some company, Apple, gets that kind of control.

Let's consider cars (or vehicles in general) as another mainstream example of completely vertically integrated products which comprise hardware and – now – software. Toyota Motor Corp., Volkswagen Group (multiple brands), Hyundai Motor Group, GM and Stellantis N.V. are the top 5 largest automakers in the world whose annual output is comparable with that of largest smartphone makers, including Apple (with the adjustme…

Pretty much none of what you mention is true. There's a huge ecosystem of 3rd party mechanics, replacement parts, services and maintenance for used cars.

Even a cursory glance at the world around you quickly proves that what you wrote it just utter crock.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#572

Post by dmitrygr »

dcow wrote: post #525
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remixing off the shelf isn't really the issue if you want to compete, it's the fact that you wont even be able to buy the competitive components at all because they wont sell you them even if you ask and have the money.

That’s covered by the compulsory license part of the comment. Say Apple has a patent on the iPhone, Apple must license the iPhone itself to me at a reasonable fee. Then I can go sell jPhones all day to compete.

In that world, why invest in R&D? Wait for someone else to, and then demand the fruit of the work…

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#573

Post by lern_too_spel »

microtherion wrote: post #449
dcow wrote: post #270

> Companies that monetize user data in exchange for “free” services that abuse your privacy aren’t affected by this [the app store tax], as they don’t process payments through the App Store. However, privacy-first companies that monetize through subscriptions are disproportionately hit by this fee, putting a major barrier toward the adoption of privacy-first business models. Huh. I’ve never seen it framed this way an…

Yes, in a way it's a rather good argument. But if you take it to its conclusion, if Apple finds it harder and harder to monetize the App Store through fees, then THEY might eventually decide to switch to privacy violating advertising as their revenue strategy.

> if Apple finds it harder and harder to monetize the App Store through fees, then THEY might eventually decide to switch to privacy violating advertising as their revenue strategy.

They already do this right now anyway, with App Store ads. Apple doesn't care about privacy. It cares about money, and it makes money any way it can. Unlike pretty much every other phone or tablet, iOS devices don't let you install apps without telling Apple. That privacy violation exists because it makes Apple money.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#574

Post by reginald78 »

immibis wrote: post #453
gilfoy wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not convinced opening up the platform to Chrome skins is good for the web, we’ll just end up with one browser that much faster

Are Safari skins any better? If they opened it, you could run Firefox.

In practice I think he is right unfortunately. Most people would just run Chrome and more websites would require Chrome since they could just tell Apple users to deal with it, making the mono-culture even worse.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#575

Post by cosmic_cheese »

bigyabai wrote: post #563
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legislation would be better, no question. Have you seen US politics, though? Not just lately, but for the past couple of decades. Electing knowledgable politicians who are willing to stay properly abreast of technology and work for the interests of their constituents is nigh impossible. The ones that get into office are most often out of touch and in someone’s pocket because they grandstand on polarizing topics that…

I've seen the politicians that Apple relies on to prevent legislative reform: https://apnews.com/article/trump-tariff-apple-iphone-tax-170... Are you now going to argue that Tim Cook is a really nice guy who practices genuinely principled leadership? I hope not, he's only there to convert your loyalty to something more liquid and fungible.

Nope, it’s clear he does what he thinks is best for the company and its shareholders. Companies aren’t your friend. Even without that, the US political system is broken and the alternatives have their own glaring issues that either lie in the blind spots of or are actively ignored by their proponents.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#576

Post by reedlaw »

gruez wrote: post #566
reedlaw wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon charges 15% for physical media, including software [1]. Since Apple is not shipping physical media, it seems something less than 15% would be more reasonable. 1. https://sellercentral.amazon.com/help/hub/reference/external...

>Since Apple is not shipping physical media, it seems something less than 15% would be more reasonable. The link you provided is only for "Referral fee", not whatever fee charges to fulfill the order (ie. warehousing and shipping), which is separate: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/help/hub/reference/external...

App store software should have minimal warehousing and shipping costs compared with physical software. I was just trying to come up with a ball-park comparable figure.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#577

Post by anonymars »

zahlman wrote: post #527
anonymars wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't understand why people complain about that AT&T telephone company monopoly, when they could just write each other letters. When did people forget how to do that?"

Telephone calls allow for near-instantaneous communication using voice while letters can (and could) take days to arrive and rely on writing. There is no comparison with using a computer vs. a cell phone to send messages over the Internet. It's even generally using all the same network protocols.

> There is no comparison with using a computer vs. a cell phone to send messages over the Internet.

"Communicate outside the home" is a pretty vast difference

> It's even generally using all the same network protocols.

This whole thread was about proprietary iMessage

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#579

Post by gruez »

bigyabai wrote: post #570
gruez wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because it doesn't have to compete with third-party distributors like MacOS? Who are the third party distributors for the playstation or xbox? >They already are, through their developer fees. It's $100/developer. Considering Microsoft used to charge thousands for Visual Studio, it doesn't seem too unreasonable to claim that $100/year is too low. >If Apple can't compensate themselves without forcing people to use the…

> Who are the third party distributors for the playstation or xbox? Plenty. The retail Xbox has supported sideloading for almost a decade now: https://www.howtogeek.com/703443/how-to-put-your-xbox-series... Nintendo Switch has fully distributed homebrew stores too. > It's $100/developer. They can charge more if they don't think they're milking developers enough. They only have, what, a few million of them worldwide.…

>Plenty. The retail Xbox has supported sideloading for almost a decade now: https://www.howtogeek.com/703443/how-to-put-your-xbox-series...

If that counts as "sideloading", you might as well count the free 7 day signing option that iOS offers (used by alt store) "sideloading".

>Nintendo Switch has fully distributed homebrew stores too.

Officially?

>Nothing, if they are forced to compete with other royalty-based services that set a fair baseline price.

See my previous comments. Apple's claim is that the fee isn't for distribution, it's for access to the SDKs. It's unclear how "if they are forced to compete with other royalty-based services that set a fair baseline price" would work in this case. Epic offers Unreal Engine for free, with the expectation that they'll recoup the money via royalties. That sounds like a lot like Apple's SDKs.

>Imagine if your favorite band could only make money by signing to a single record label.

That's what happens for most bands though? There's typically a exclusivity period, and some artists might stick with a given label their entire lives.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#580

Post by dcow »

dmitrygr wrote: post #572
dcow wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s covered by the compulsory license part of the comment. Say Apple has a patent on the iPhone, Apple must license the iPhone itself to me at a reasonable fee. Then I can go sell jPhones all day to compete.

In that world, why invest in R&D? Wait for someone else to, and then demand the fruit of the work…

You get to charge royalties and license fees.
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