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The $25k car is going extinct?

media.hubspot.com

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#571

Post by Retric »

diggan wrote: post #560
contrarian1234 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the title of the article is stated in pretax figures.... Apples to Oranges You might as well add in the lifetime maintenance costs while you're at it (would be very useful to know technically ... Maybe BYD makes it up on repairs or something)

> Because the title of the article is stated in pretax figures.... How do you know that? Neither the submission article (hubspot) or the article referenced by the parent comment (gmauthority) mentions anything about the figures being pretax or posttax, why would they default to talking a price no one else would use? > You might as well add in the lifetime maintenance costs while you're at it If that's something you h…

Because US post tax figures vary by state so you can’t list a single number.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/car-sales-t...

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#572

Post by neogodless »

aembleton wrote: post #396
neogodless wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very subjective. The cars people today call a "little penalty box" are easily equivalent or better to many of the luxury cars of the 1990s. Bluetooth, AC, ABS, backup camera. There's almost nothing that isn't required / standard. Plus they tend to be the efficient 35+ mpg cars.

Plenty of tech, but are the seats as comfortable?

Again subjective, and varies by model.

I can't speak for every car. I test drove a Civic and did not find it comfortable (way back in ~2007) and that was mostly due to my own dimensions, but I found the 2007/2008 Honda Fit seats great, as well as the 2014 Mazda 3 I had owned.

As comfortable as an $80K car? In some cases, no, but often more comfortable than the luxury cars of a few decades ago. Hardly a penalty box!

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#573

Post by geerlingguy »

doubled112 wrote: post #512
BanterTrouble wrote: post #382

I work on my own cars now (as a hobby really) and one of the reasons the new cars are so expensive is they are much more complicated. A lot of this seems to be over-engineering IMO. This is alluded to in the article, but not explicitly stated. The cars I work on are from the early 90s and everything is very simple to understand. e.g. Electronics are normally simple circuits that aren't much more complicated than what…

I was shocked that we started replacing glow plugs one at a time. I drove a 2002 diesel Jetta for a few years. $80 for all four glow plugs. It’s a no brainer to do them all. This was probably ~2015, it was old when it was written off. This year, the cheapest I could find one (yes, just one) for my 2013 was $135 online. Cheaper online than a mechanic friend of mine could get it through any of his sources. There is a c…

Aside, I had never heard of a glow plug, after working on a few generations of cars... I figured it might be a US vs rest of the world thing with naming something like a "spark plug".

But I looked it up and for the benefit of anyone else who's never worked on diesel, it's part of the diesel ignition cycle it seems. TIL!

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#574

Post by sillystu04 »

alerighi wrote: post #436
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not merely an issue of obtaining materially desirable consumer goods though; lots of folks get car loans because they can't afford to buy a car, even a cheap car, without one. So it's either, don't get a car and give up a lot of opportunities or hope you live in a place with decent public transit (which is not a given in many places in the US)

You can always get an used car for practically any amount of money. A lot of time an used car is even more reliable than a new shiny car full of useless electronic components. To me buying new cars is just throwing away money, simply because at the moment you brought the car out from the dealer the car just is worth 3/4 of the price you payed it, and when you have to resell it in 10 years it is worth almost nothing.

> To me buying new cars is just throwing away money

Why should a car manufacturer care about your preferences if you're never going to buy new from them?

It's annoying but people like us who care about things like TCO are probably never going to buy new cars under any circumstances, so our concerns about electronic components don't motivate designers.

Even if we might help residual values of leases and buy used parts, our influence over car companies is radically lower than new car buyers.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#575

Post by neogodless »

Marsymars wrote: post #222
neogodless wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chevrolet Trax can be found between $20-21k USD but... when I look at inventory, nothing within ~75 miles is under $25k. Not a horrible vehicle for the price. Mazda 3 used to be a $20k car (and even less before that) but now starts just over $24k (sedan) / $25k (hatchback).

TBF even at $25k the Mazda 3 is probably “nicer” than anything else you can get for that price.

Absolutely. While I personally don't advocate buying anything new, if you gotta, it's a great way to go.

My previous car was a 2015 Mazda 3 Grand Touring bought with 8,000 miles on it for $20k (about $26-27k MSRP new). All the luxuries and bells and whistles!

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#576

Post by Xenoamorphous »

diggan wrote: post #527
1970-01-01 wrote: post #517

Completely unmentioned: Chinese EVs are $10k worldwide except USA. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/08/2025-byd-seagull-ev-sta...

The Seagull (aka "Dolphin Surf" in other countries) seems to cost 18560 GBP in the UK, or 11.780€ in Spain. Haven't checked out other countries, but clearly "Chinese EVs (BYD Seagull/Dolphin Surf/Dolphin Mini) are $10k worldwide except USA" isn't 100% correct. Seems fine to leave something like that unmentioned, as a quick check reveals it not to be true at all.

Is there a typo in your message? I see €18,780 in Spain.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#577

Post by tlogan »

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted.

Reality check:

- In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000

- In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation)

So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This article is full of misleading or outdated information that distorts the real trend.

HN deserves better data-driven discussions.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#578

Post by arichard123 »

diggan wrote: post #560
contrarian1234 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the title of the article is stated in pretax figures.... Apples to Oranges You might as well add in the lifetime maintenance costs while you're at it (would be very useful to know technically ... Maybe BYD makes it up on repairs or something)

> Because the title of the article is stated in pretax figures.... How do you know that? Neither the submission article (hubspot) or the article referenced by the parent comment (gmauthority) mentions anything about the figures being pretax or posttax, why would they default to talking a price no one else would use? > You might as well add in the lifetime maintenance costs while you're at it If that's something you h…

Americans have complex post tax rules. I think their normal is a pre-tax figure. Also, it helps if you are comparing across territories I guess.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#579

Post by tpm »

sillystu04 wrote: post #558
moooo99 wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, that statement is entirely untrue. These cars aren‘t 10k in most (all?) of the EU for example. As far as I know, these 10k cars are really only a thing in china and some SEA markets (I am not sure if these cars are really that cheap adjusted to purchasing power in these markets). Beyond that, the chinese EV brands are in market capture mode right now. The competition is cut throat and the margins are ex…

> Beyond that, the chinese EV brands are in market capture mode right now. The competition is cut throat and the margins are extremely thin. BYD is profitable. Admittedly that's more of an exception than a rule for Chinese EV brands, but BYD is also the most important. > It‘s a market skimming strategy that will presumably be a last man standing scenario. If the winner(s) are decided, prices will definitely not remai…

> BYD is profitable.

Yes but also heavily indebted:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-19/byd-s-sup...

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#580

Post by LastTrain »

mattmaroon wrote: post #555
immibis wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just competition doing its job. The rate of profit, just like every other price, is supposed to fall to the minimum sustsinable level in capitalism.

But it’s well below the minimum sustainable level due to Chinese government subsidies.

Wait until you hear about US federal and state automaker subsidies!
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