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More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

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Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#571

Post by 827a »

madeofpalk wrote: post #395
ksec wrote: post #51

The problem isn't sending an Ad to Wallet. It is the fact that Apple openly attack Ads, condemns Ads, talk about privacy as fundamental human rights, and then have targeted Ads, in a place / software / services where no body expected it to appear. And not everybody has the Ad, so by HN / Reddit / Internet definition that Ad is targeted. The thing I used to like about Apple, even if you disagree with some of its decis…

I don't think you have it right here. Was this a targeted ad? Apple doesn't openly attack Ads - they are actively hostile to privacy invasive technology, which I don't think this runs foul of. The problem isn't that Apple has ads, it's that Apple pushed an ad through Wallet. And in the Settings app. And in all the other untasteful places they spam with these ads.

Some people received the ad, while others did not (I did not). I don't think we fully understand what has caused some people to receive the ad versus not; maybe its just simple probability, or maybe its something more personal like usage of the Apple TV app, active TV+ subscription, having movie theater apps installed, or search interest in F1.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#572

Post by Sylamore »

em500 wrote: post #129

Apple Wallet is in the App store, and the F1 ad debacle directly violates App Store guidelines https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ ) > 4.5.4 Push Notifications must not be required for the app to function, and should not be used to send sensitive personal or confidential information. Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly…

Resido - the app for honeywell smart thermostats - requires notifications to be enabled to view or manage your thermostat settings or run time history. This is relatively recent because I had disabled notifications over a year ago due to it pushing ads to me.

The good news is you can limit it to only showing badges, but you have to at least have that enabled or it just freezes on a blank screen after telling you to edit your settings.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#573

Post by albert_e »

Android apps blatantly misuse notifications to push inane ads and promotions

Android provides a "notification categories" setting where user can trun some type of notifications on and other off.

Most apps I use fall into two or three buckets --

1. There is just one "default" notifications category ... so it is all or nothing.

2. There are a few categories named very vaguely with no way to actually discern what is useful and what is junk, and they also use them inconsistency.

3. There are tons and tons of notifications categories - list keeps changing frequently - so There is no way you can set and forget. So whatever you may do, ads still sneak through.

Where/how can we start pushing back on this irresponsible behaviour and shame these billion dollar brands for abusing customers and treating us like fools.

If someone has already given this form of abuse a name and a prominent online post -- maybe we could make it more popular and raise awareness.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#574

Post by pants2 »

Sylamore wrote: post #572
em500 wrote: post #129

Apple Wallet is in the App store, and the F1 ad debacle directly violates App Store guidelines https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ ) > 4.5.4 Push Notifications must not be required for the app to function, and should not be used to send sensitive personal or confidential information. Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly…

Resido - the app for honeywell smart thermostats - requires notifications to be enabled to view or manage your thermostat settings or run time history. This is relatively recent because I had disabled notifications over a year ago due to it pushing ads to me. The good news is you can limit it to only showing badges, but you have to at least have that enabled or it just freezes on a blank screen after telling you to e…

What an awful app too. It doesn't refresh the current temperature without force-quitting and restarting. Not as bad as my water heater app though. Couldn't get it to pair after 30 mins of headbanging, finally got through to their support who told me that the app usually doesn't work and they don't know why, and that I shouldn't bother trying.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#575

Post by kulahan »

mlyle wrote: post #517
kulahan wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t the guidelines apply to anyone using it who doesn’t have specific, legal, written exemptions? Not to say they don’t have it, but simply hand-waving “well they wrote it so it doesn’t have to apply to them” doesn’t seem quite as simple to me. I could be wrong!

The whole point of an agreement is that it sets out what parties will do for each other, and what happens if there is a breach. Apple could already do things with the App Store without needing to agree to something to get Apple to let Apple do App Store things. Apple is not going to sue themselves for being in breach. etc. Just because there's e.g. a license agreement doesn't mean you need to agree to something, if y…

Thanks, this is why I asked - I know law can be weird and somewhat counterintuitive, so I try not to assume much!

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#576

Post by brookst »

ghushn3 wrote: post #537
brookst wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Apple does not sign up for an Apple Developer account. Contracts with oneself aren't even meaningful. This is a common tech enthusiast fallacy: thinking that law is code. So there must be some "if app published, there must be a developer account, and if the developer account violates the rule the app must be removed". It just doesn't work that way. Apple has contracts with third parties to allow them to distribut…

The law definitely is not code, but the law could require Apple to follow the same requirements they set for others. Then the government could sue Apple (or otherwise enforce this behavior.) It's not the worst idea I've heard, tbh.

Sure, but that’s not how it works.

And it’s a pretty bad idea. It basically means that no apps that ship with an OS can be available in the store.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#577

Post by brookst »

thefounder wrote: post #526
brookst wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Apple does not sign up for an Apple Developer account. Contracts with oneself aren't even meaningful. This is a common tech enthusiast fallacy: thinking that law is code. So there must be some "if app published, there must be a developer account, and if the developer account violates the rule the app must be removed". It just doesn't work that way. Apple has contracts with third parties to allow them to distribut…

This is the reason why anti-trust agencies don’t like this. Apple (with its App Store) is a gatekeeper and in Europe at least it should not favor its own apps over the others(i.e maps, payments, AI integrations etc). It should play fair.

“Fair” meaning that an app that was designed from the ground up by the same people that created the device and operating system should get the same attention as a malware-ridden hack from six years ago?

What does fair even mean here? Ensuring the advantages of vertical integration can’t be enjoyed by users?

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#578

Post by labster »

simonask wrote: post #512
labster wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know man, I would have believed this wholeheartedly ten years ago. But people are choosing true authoritarianism in droves. People just keep voting for Trump, Orban, Erdogan, and Le Pen. Trump is extremely transactional. All of which is great news for China, and a great victory for their ‘do nothing: win’ policy.

They always have. The present isn’t super special, and I think Europeans (speaking as one) realize this a bit easier, because we see populist governments rise and fall again, over and over, in different countries. Populism is notoriously brittle, and almost every European populist party has eventually fallen once they gained actual power, because it turns out governing is complicated and can’t be done effectively whi…

In uni, my friends used the phrase “simple solutions for complex times” as an insult for political ideas. Cutting the Gordian Knot only works well if your father spent half his life perfecting a new military doctrine for you. Still, it’s amazing how many people have “how hard can it be?” attitudes about everything but their own career/field.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#579

Post by lmm »

mslansn wrote: post #237
lmm wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't feel like a comparable violation. I've bought more than one (physical) photo album that came with a flyer in for ordering more copies.

Google Photos is the gallery app that comes with Android phones. Sometimes you will get notifications asking you to buy a printed, real life photo album with the photos that you have in your phone. That album is sold through a partner, which makes this an ad. It’s not upselling you on something you already purchased. It’s telling you to buy a photo album with the photos you took using your phone. https://support.goog…

My point is that skeuomorphically that app is my photo album. So it's not a shocking place to have an ad. Whereas getting an ad in my wallet is a whole different kettle of fish.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#580

Post by anitil »

Sylamore wrote: post #572
em500 wrote: post #129

Apple Wallet is in the App store, and the F1 ad debacle directly violates App Store guidelines https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ ) > 4.5.4 Push Notifications must not be required for the app to function, and should not be used to send sensitive personal or confidential information. Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly…

Resido - the app for honeywell smart thermostats - requires notifications to be enabled to view or manage your thermostat settings or run time history. This is relatively recent because I had disabled notifications over a year ago due to it pushing ads to me. The good news is you can limit it to only showing badges, but you have to at least have that enabled or it just freezes on a blank screen after telling you to e…

I refuse to allow any smart device in my house. Even my oven is getting out over its boots lately
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