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How to live on $432 a month in America

shagbark.substack.com

571–580 of 764 posts

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#571
post #2

I've often felt this way about some of today's complaints. I grew up in area like what was mentioned in this article and I long for the day I can go back there. I would in a heartbeat if my partner shared the same mentality as me. I don't really see a point in living a big city with the remote job I have and that many others have if I can live in a smaller area that still has humans but much cheaper way of living. Ev…

> I would in a heartbeat if my partner shared the same mentality as me.

And what are the chances you would find an acceptable partner for you in the small town if you didn’t already have one?

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#572

Like other people here, I have my quibbles with the exact math. But the general premise is true: yes, you can live in rural poverty for cheap. The problem is the vibes. A hundred years ago, you would have a community, a place in society, and all of your family and friends nearby. In 2025, the only actual local job the author of the piece can come up with is at a gas station. Top ten occupations, 1920: Farmers, farm l…

> a young man working at a Walmart or a gas station will struggle to attract a stable partner or the respect of the world around him.

From personal experience I can tell you confidently you are wrong.

The part you are missing is you only need to work 10-20 hours a week MAX. That means you have an enormous Amount of leisure time to do what you want with your life. Trust me when I say plenty of young women love the idea of not working a lot and instead having wilderness adventures.

Want to see it for yourself? Go spend a summer in the Yukon. If you love it, stay the winter. It’s nothing short of epic.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an example of a place. There are likely many such places all over the USA within a few hours drive of where your friends and family live.

So now you have to have a car? So yes this post is still unrealistic

Having a reliable car can be cheap, it just requires skipping more modern convenience features and being willing to work on it yourself.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#574
post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rural living also looks cheaper because most people do not even remotely consider the costs of transportation. The IRS estimates per-mile deduction at well over 60 cents per mile. If you have to drive 15 miles to the grocery store and back, your grocery bill goes up $18/trip. If you need to drive 15 miles to work and back, take $90/week out of your paycheck. Then there's the fact that whoever is The Employer in that…

>The IRS estimates per-mile deduction at well over 60 cents per mile. I think you are manipulating and substituting concepts, and these calculations of the cost of the trip include expensive cars of highly paid city workers. And if you recalculate the cost of the trip taking into account cars that are used outside the city, then the amount will be several times lower. Probably 5 or more times lower if people are inte…

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Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#575
> In fact, were it to be that any of those who seek a simpler, more straightforward, more affordable way of life matched themselves up with the various regions in which that kind of a life is on offer in spades — it just might make our country better.

I think this all the time too. Would be interesting to try to start a colony like this.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rural living also looks cheaper because most people do not even remotely consider the costs of transportation. The IRS estimates per-mile deduction at well over 60 cents per mile. If you have to drive 15 miles to the grocery store and back, your grocery bill goes up $18/trip. If you need to drive 15 miles to work and back, take $90/week out of your paycheck. Then there's the fact that whoever is The Employer in that…

I also noticed the author's budget did not include health insurance. I also wonder how close it is to the nearest hospital or urgent care.

I live in a pretty rural area. We have a hospital and urgent care 12 minutes away, though for anything that isn't immediately life threatening I'd be driving an hour for much better hospital care in a larger city.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#577
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is wood free? To heat even a tiny home purpose-built for high efficiency you'd need several acres of woods to sustainably harvest. For a falling-apart $30k hovel in upstate NY you'd probably need more like 15 acres, and you don't get a 15-acre stand of woods in the deal for that price.

15 acres? It should take far less than an acre. The house isn't well insulated, but it's also small. A few big trees, say 40-year Sitka spruce, should last the whole winter, and you can plant a thousand of those on an acre. Of course it depends on the land and the house. But here's some Reddit comments also estimating the need at https://www.reddit.com/r/homestead/comments/1jnpbug/how_much...

As someone who has been burning wood for heat for 35 years, those people are out of their damn mind if they think 1 acre will supply them their fire wood. 1 acre will absolutely not grow enough wood to heat your home unless you are cutting it all down and moving away in a few years. It takes a decade of growth just to get a tree to the point where it is growing at a reasonable rate, it needs a root system built up before it can grow efficiently, and that root system is destroyed when you cut the tree down and the next set of trees needs to regrow it.

And even with a well managed rotating stock of trees, you are going to at best get just over half a cord per acre. And in my area which is as close to the same weather as Northern New York as it gets, I would expect they would need atleast full 3 cords of wood to make it through a mild winter, more if it is a colder winter or if no snow builds up to help insulate or if you live on an open plot where wind can blow over your house.

I wouldn't even consider trying to survive on my own tree wood unless I had at least 10 acres to harvest off of, and it would still depend on the type of trees growing there and is still kind of straddling the edge of sustainable long term.

Maybe if you went full 16th century and started coppicing the woods and maintaining bare minimum heating you could do better, but coppiced woods also takes a decade to initial establish and maintain and nobody has coppiced woods just sitting around waiting to be utilized.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#578
post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tennis racket is $13 at Goodwill and tennis balls are $1.30/ea. In the case of living in Massena, NY like the author you can play at Alcoa Park for $0.00. As for climbing, you don't need a $200 climbing harness you can tie your own Swiss seat out of rope ($2/ft.) and buy a couple of snap links ($4-10/ea.). I would buy a lower-end harness for $30 though. Spread out over several seasons that is as close to "nothing"…

Have you ever tried to do those sports with cheapest equipment? Because I did and it ended up the same as everyone else who tried it in a cheapest possible way - you stop because it is not fun nor pleasure and equipment limits you. That being said, for tenista you need to pay entry. For climbing, you will be kicked out of gym on top of it being uncomfortable. Climbing gym don't want you injured due to badly made seat…

> Hobbies are only expensive if you let them or want them to be.

Climbing gyms aren't cheap. Climbing rocks outdoors is fairly cheap.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, leaving everyone behind and not seeing them again was kind of what people did in the great grandfather era mentioned in the article. Even not that long ago. I was talking to someone only perhaps grandma age the other day who said their brother's family moved to BC and they didn't see them for 25 years. Your comment does focus in on the interesting point in that connected places have perhaps not scaled as…

> what people did in the great grandfather era Unfortunately the appeal to ancestry fallacy is always a terrible idea. You see this in the nutrition space where “influencers” go on and on about how our ancestors ate, forgetting that our ancestors died extremely early relative to modern humans. Similarly, our grandparents lived pretty terrible lives in many ways. The reason to complain about the high cost of living is…

> Similarly, our grandparents lived pretty terrible lives in many ways.

That's entirely subjective. My grandparents are no longer alive but I'm confident they would find many aspects of the average life today to be terrible.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#580
On one hand I agree with the general premise of the article, which is that you can live a lot cheaper than you choose to. Homes in the passably-cute downtown of Massena are under $100k; you could live on $40k/yr comfortably and if you're here on HN you can probably earn at least than that with a remote job. Cutting it to $5k/yr is just trying to prove something.

The missing thing is health care. If you're young and immortal and willing to take risks, sure. This attitude won't last into middle age. My wife had cancer, and without health insurance I'd be a single parent right now. Maybe you can lean on public assistance like Medicaid (if it continues to exist), but this isn't really a scalable solution for "we can all live cheaper". It only works if enough people stay in the rat race to pay for it.

"Cheap" health insurance for a youngish small family is >$1000/mo. That really isn't optional in the US.

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