Live data from Hacker News

MacBook Air M4

apple.com

571–580 of 972 posts

Re: MacBook Air M4

#571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument is they were able to develop the chip because of their control. The constraints allowed them that freedom and the constraints come from the top down integration and control. I'll bow out here because I can just tell this won't be a worthwhile thread.

But what other advantage did this give them? Like name specific examples. Feel free to leave, but I honestly don't see where you're coming from.

They've been able to reap some real technological efficiencies because of their vertical integration. Notable ones I know about:

- The integrated on-chip RAM dramatically speeds up memory access. Your full 16 GB of RAM on an M1 functions at cache speeds; meanwhile, the L3 cache on an Intel processor is 1-8M, more than 3 orders of magnitude smaller.

- Apple takes full advantage of this with their software stack. Objective C and Swift use reference counting. The advantage of refcounting is that it doesn't have slow GC pauses, but the disadvantage is that it has terrible locality properties (requiring that you update refcounts on all sorts of different cache lines when you assign a variable) which often make it significantly slower on real-world Intel hardware. But if your entire RAM operates at cache speeds, this disadvantage goes away.

- Refcounting is usually significantly more memory-efficient than GC, because with the latter you need to set aside empty space to copy objects into, and as that space fills up your GC becomes significantly less efficient. This lets Apple apps get more out of smaller overall RAM sizes. The 16GB on an M1 would feel very constraining on most modern Wintel computers, but it's plenty for Apple software.

- The OS is aware of the overall system load, and can use it to determine whether to use the performance or efficiency cores, and to allocate workloads across cores. The efficiency cores are very battery-efficient; that's why Macbooks often have multiple times the battery life of Windows laptops.

- The stock apps are all designed to take advantage of efficiencies in the OS and not do work that they don't need to, which again makes them faster and more battery efficient.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#572
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had to use one for a few weeks. Low DPI screen and horrendous touchpad.

I haven’t used or seen one, but based on this I have a very strong impression about what the built-in speakers sound like. Plastic case?

No way you're getting that light weight with metal

Re: MacBook Air M4

#573
post #24

The 13” model is only $300 more than the M4 Mac Mini whether comparing the base models or the 32GB RAM options. That’s a pretty good value for a battery, screen, webcam, trackpad, and keyboard. The main thing you give up is the ability to connect a third large display when at your desktop, a few ports, and support for higher than 60Hz refresh rate on an external display.

I don't know the refresh rate, but my M2 MBA is plugged to a 70" TV with no problem. Perhaps it's not at the highest resolution possible, but I can't see pixels from where I sit.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#574
post #491
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not a surface laptop 7? https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/laptops/microsoft-surfac... Wtf is with the downvotes? It literally hits every requirement he had, and the surface laptops are some of the best windows/nix laptops on the market.

I don't think the SL7 is a like-for-like comparison even if it seems like it on paper. The SL7 is great if you want/need to run Windows - I convinced my sister to get one and she loves the battery life and low heat (less fain noise) compared to her previous devices. If you want a nix experience, Linux support is still a WIP and progress is quite slow because of a lack of help from Snapdragon and OEMs. I expect that i…

Parent post made me search and I found an Intel Lunar Lake version of the SL7. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-laptop-for-busines...

I am between Lenovo X1 Aura, MSI Prestige 13, and this. All have Lunar Lake so battery life should be exceptional, except of course if there are any issues with battery drain during sleep on Linux. Definitely spoiled by Apple not having battery drain issues, but would love pointers on how to solve it.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#575
post #247

My 4-year old Dell XPS 15 is up for replacement, but somehow no manufacturer aside from Apple is making laptop with decent specs nowadays? I want 2TB storage, a 4k (or close) HiDPI display, good build quality, and not a bulky gaming laptop. The XPS 15 was perfect, it had those specs, except it only had 1TB storage which is now full. I was expecting that to not be an issue 4 years later ... But now Dell discontinued X…

Akhm... Framework... Or Lenovo/Thinkpad.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#576
post #6

After getting the initial M1 Air, I am still struggling to find a reason to replace it. Still going strong with no hiccups!

Everyone I know that got an M1 cheaped out on the 8gb model and are now struggling to use a browser with heavy sites and multitasking(zoom) at the same time. But also apples upcharge on RAM is disgusting, so it's hard to blame them for picking the lowest spec model.

That's me. It's brutal trying to do Unity game dev on this. Constantly run out of memory and can't do much multitasking.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First is that Mac screens are much closer to 3K than 4K. You can find tons of really nice 14" 3K laptops so the gap is pretty much negligible there, especially if you consider how cheap you can get 3K OLEDs on Windows PCs nowadays. You are discounting the quality of a Macbook screen without understanding how it differs from competitors. A Macbook is the only laptop on the market that accurately reproduces colors ou…

I jut don't care that much much about color accuracy. Software availability is worse for me, as ARM still causes problems. The AMD CPU are pretty nice. The ThinkPad still have some advantages to me. There are some design choices I much prefer. Granted, when recommending to other people, they likely wouldn't value those same things. I bought a ThinkPad recently, just as I have done for 15+ years now. At the same price…

The X1 Carbon Aura Edition looks like a nice MBA-class machine, I just wish Lenovo were a bit less stingy on its battery since even the most efficient x86 CPUs are more power hungry than M-series SoCs. They’ve also stated that they don’t intend to support Linux with it which is concerning.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what other advantage did this give them? Like name specific examples. Feel free to leave, but I honestly don't see where you're coming from.

They've been able to reap some real technological efficiencies because of their vertical integration. Notable ones I know about: - The integrated on-chip RAM dramatically speeds up memory access. Your full 16 GB of RAM on an M1 functions at cache speeds; meanwhile, the L3 cache on an Intel processor is 1-8M, more than 3 orders of magnitude smaller. - Apple takes full advantage of this with their software stack. Objec…

[deleted]

Re: MacBook Air M4

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what other advantage did this give them? Like name specific examples. Feel free to leave, but I honestly don't see where you're coming from.

They've been able to reap some real technological efficiencies because of their vertical integration. Notable ones I know about: - The integrated on-chip RAM dramatically speeds up memory access. Your full 16 GB of RAM on an M1 functions at cache speeds; meanwhile, the L3 cache on an Intel processor is 1-8M, more than 3 orders of magnitude smaller. - Apple takes full advantage of this with their software stack. Objec…

It feels like a core part of your claim--at least half of it--relies on most software for "Wintel computers" being written in garbage collected languages, which would be shocking if it were true.

Re: MacBook Air M4

#580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you have the choice to go with the AMD Ryzen AI Max processor which rivals the M4. And gives similar battery life and performance. Or the Intel Lunar Lake processor. Both have extremely good laptop options - the Lenovo Yoga Aura edition is pretty much macbook quality. And runs LLMs ( https://github.com/intel/ipex-llm/blob/main/docs/mddocs/Over... )

The Asus ROG Flow Z13 with 128gb unified memory and the AMD Ryzen AI Max amu would be my first non-M4 laptop pick. Surprised how under-reported this device is.

Dave2D did a glowing review of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVbm2a6lVBo
Post reply on HN