The Demoralization is just Beginning • Hacker News Board

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#571

Post by throw10920 » Wed, Mar 05, 2025, 1:55 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #504

emsy wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s true for Germany. There recently was a case of a podcaster whose acquaintances were tapped and was apprehended while walking with his 1yo for posting memes. An AfD politician was fined 6000€ for posting crime statistics. A man had his house searched for sharing a meme of calling a politician something along the lines of „idiot“. There’s also the 60 minutes interview where prosecutors brag about confiscating devi…

The only people who are in jail for political reasons in the UK are fossil fuel company protestors, who were jailed for planning a protest during a Zoom meeting. Others have been jailed for relatively minor but high profile actions, such as throwing paint at paintings (protected behind glass). People have been jailed for racist rioting and planning racist riots, but not many people in the UK see that as a bad thing.…

> People have been jailed for racist rioting and planning racist riots

This is a factually false. The recent UK riots were largely about protesting violence (stabbings, killings, rape (which increased by a factor of 4.3 over 13 years, closely correlated to migration) and unchecked immigration (which is unpopular and opposed by a large fraction of the population, from someone who lived there).

These are, factually, not issues of racism - they are humans rights (in the case of the violence) and extremely reasonable political positions (in the case of cutting down immigration), and it's intentionally and maliciously deceptive to claim that they're "racism".

Yes, it's likely that some number of people at the riots were there because they were racist. No, the majority of the protestors were not there for that reason, and claiming that that small fraction makes the riots "racist" (not that that's even a coherent statement to make in the first place) is a lie.

Additionally, it's also a lie to claim that only people participating in or planning the riots were jailed - "A judge has warned that anybody present at a riot will be remanded in custody, even if they were only a “curious observer”"[1], which was actually implemented, with documented video evidence of people getting arrested for merely filming the protests and police, with no participation[2].

It's deeply evil to defend the UK government's behavior here.

> The idea that the US

This is the tu quoque fallacy, in addition to being irrelevant - the topic is the UK and EU on free speech, not the UK.

This whole comment is just a tangle of lies, fallacies, and emotional manipulation.

[1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/09/judge-refuses-ba...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0X4uPjcEsE

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#572

Post by amrocha » Wed, Mar 05, 2025, 1:57 PM UTC

l0ng1nu5 wrote: post #268

amrocha wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of countries listening to MMT economists?

The US since the GFC is probably the most obvious one. As I understand it, pretty much every developed country employed mmt practice in response to covid. Now we have (even more) rampant inflation and wealth inequality with no sign of slowing down.

I see, by “MMT” you mean quantitative easing. Not really the same thing.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#573

Post by coldpie » Wed, Mar 05, 2025, 1:57 PM UTC

rco8786 wrote: post #452

RivieraKid wrote: post #440

This started out interesting but then the red flags started to pop up. Going to jail in Europe for posting memes, gold standard, salivating over doing something that benefits the US and hurts countries that are already poorer than the US. He has strong opinions on economics, but doesn't understand it. His points about economics are partially true but either subtly incorrect or interpreted incorrectly.

Yea I had the exact same experience reading this.

Yeah same. I'm not an economy understander, the article had lots of upvotes, seemed like kind of interesting ideas at the start. Then he wrote "jailed for memes" and oh, it's just another crank who escaped confinement from Elon Musk's X. I come back to the HN discussion and sure enough he has no idea what he's talking about.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#574

Post by vincnetas » Wed, Mar 05, 2025, 1:58 PM UTC

macNchz wrote: post #526

sgt101 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two UK cases: - Nazi pug man got a fine of £800; no jail. - Cheshire people; in the context of rioting and the consequences of rioting. For the record I think (personal view only) that the Nazi pug man should never have been prosecuted, I personally find it grossly offensive but I think that the harm of stopping people saying these things is greater than the harm of the idiot saying them. The Cheshire thing I fin…

> Is it really the case that it's ok to threaten people or to call for violence against a community in the USA? In cases like that, courts in the US make the determination as to whether the speech is protected based on whether it may cause “imminent lawless action”—hard to say in the Cheshire case without seeing what they were actually posting, but encouraging people to start violent riots would not be protected in t…

have we already forgotten recent event when insurance company send a woman to jail for threats (unrealistic).

US woman arrested for allegedly threatening health firm: ‘Delay, deny, depose’

is this equivalent of EU meme jailing?

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#575

Post by elisharobinson » Wed, Mar 05, 2025, 1:58 PM UTC

tomhoward wrote: post #381

elisharobinson wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this assumes that a smart person would move to US 100% of the time. given the bipolar nature of US i doubt 100% of smart people would move .

I worry that all the replies to my comment will be claims about what percentage of the smartest and most productive people will want to move to the US in practice, thereby avoiding debating the central point. The first reply asserted that my comment was based on a “ridiculous premise” without addressing the principle.

we are talking about a pure scenario which is not related to present day reality . If we are talking about reality "skill" is rarely the deciding factor when individuals decide to migrate. it is about risk tolerance you are taking a huge risk by moving to a different country / culture / social circle the ROIC is not always clear. Its not for everyone ( was my point ). Hypothetically if the success of country is based on how many risk takers ( and not skill ) are there then sure your argument makes sense.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#576

Post by dworkr » Wed, Mar 05, 2025, 1:58 PM UTC

bsenftner wrote: post #454

lqet wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These are the things people are looking to immigrate towards. In the academic world, I am definitely seeing brain-drain from the EU towards China now. 10-20 years ago, it was almost exclusively the US. I expect this shift to rapidly continue now. From a European perspective, China appears to be more stable than the US at the moment. > The language of the world in English, Hollywood is American, Hip hop is American…

If I've learned anything in my 60 years, it's that China can do the USA better than the USA can. Give it a few more short years, and "Hollywood" will be recognized as Chinese. I used to work at a Los Angeles based Academy Award winning VFX studio, now bankrupt because that is how Hollywood treats it's own, and everyone that remained in the business is now in China, developing their VFX and film industry. They even dr…

[dead]

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#577

Post by red-iron-pine » Wed, Mar 05, 2025, 2:00 PM UTC

EncomLab wrote: post #527

ZeroTalent wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is called lamphshading. Lampshading is when someone acknowledges a flaw or controversial aspect upfront, often humorously or ironically, to deflect criticism or give the appearance of humility or openness. Saying something like "A home for poorly researched ideas" while actually propagating extremist, controversial, or misleading content is a tactic intended to: disarm critics, avoid accountability, and create p…

i.e. the "geohot method". Why this guy still pulls so much traction is a mystery.

lotta good cracks back in the day

some of his "watch me program" vids are also pretty popular. I learned a lot from watching his workflow.

but I'd never trust him when talking about economics or politics, or even where to go for dinner.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#578

Post by econ » Wed, Mar 05, 2025, 2:01 PM UTC

dudefeliciano wrote: post #455

RivieraKid wrote: post #440

This started out interesting but then the red flags started to pop up. Going to jail in Europe for posting memes, gold standard, salivating over doing something that benefits the US and hurts countries that are already poorer than the US. He has strong opinions on economics, but doesn't understand it. His points about economics are partially true but either subtly incorrect or interpreted incorrectly.

is there any reliable source for that "going to jail in europe for posting memes"? I keep seeing this argument in online arguments, but can not find a credible source

This should do it

https://youtu.be/XkT0jIxwJOY?si=2XCc84FGyTFdPyHv

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#579

Post by rayiner » Wed, Mar 05, 2025, 2:02 PM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #321

rayiner wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> often deployed to support anti-immigrant, anti-assimiliationist views. So what? Immigration is optional. The people supporting large-scale migration from countries without functional democracies should have the burden of proving that cultural attitudes salient to democracy are not durable. Even in the U.S., I'm not persuaded that the Anglo-American republic as originally conceived survived the mass immigration of c…

The US, Canada and Australia were all formed at times where the origin countries where not liberal democracies, so where did that "democratic seed" come from, and why should people fleeing totalitarian regimes not have it? This argument really does not make sense, and lest we forget those "enlightened democratic western cultures" created some pretty gruesome dictatorships in the intermittent years.

The modern Bangladesh constitution, created in the 1970s, has concepts like “due process.” That phrase comes from a 1354 English law implementing the Magna Carta: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt5-5-2/ALD.... If you study British history, you’ll see that foundation for what became America, Canada, and Australia has being built for 900 years, even when British society was ruled by a king.

Turning to Western europe more generally, there are cultural traits arising from Christianity and the historical development of the Catholic Church: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/09/joseph-henric....

Protestantism also played a significant role. Puritanism in New England heavily influenced what became American political culture: https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/37/our-puritan-heritag...

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#580

Post by gizmo » Wed, Mar 05, 2025, 2:03 PM UTC

energy123 wrote: post #399

jgilias wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t worry about this too much. Brain drain, despite the name, is not really a zero-sum game. The people who move rarely lose all contact with the host country. They gain invaluable experience, know-how, and contacts that some of them eventually bring back to the host country. I know of more than one example where someone has been “brain-drained” to the states, who has subsequently moved back to start a success…

The only reason the Chinese solar industry exists is because of so called "brain drain" from China to Australia and Germany. The reality is far less zero sum. These Chinese scientists learned about and contributed to solar research overseas, and some of them went back to China and made China wealthier.

Do you actually believe Chinese researchers are incapable of figuring out photovoltaics by themselves? China has first-rate universities and thousands of PhDs in every field imaginable. They can make solar cells without our help. Having access to western research only sped up the inevitable. China has a solar industry today simply because the Chinese government decided that energy production was a top priority. They made it happen.