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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#571

Ukraine is in a bind, and the US has the power to do whatever it wants. But boy, will the nations of the world remember this -- how quickly the US can turn from ally to bully. A really bad day for US foreign policy. The EU is going to be thinking long and hard about the future of NATO now.

They should have been thinking for a long time now, but weren't. For the 2% requirement:

2015: 5 countries

2021: 9 countries

2024: 23 countries

I don't think these levels would have improved so quickly without the US being a bully.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#572
post #297

So, watching the video as a brit with a number if Ukrainian friends and colleagues, my first reaction is that this is the Trump Whitehouse looking for a cheap win. However, I think their calculation here speaks to the difficulty of the current situation. Putting aside the morality, sovereign integrity, and such: the situation appears to be entering/in a stalemate. The Ukrainian forces have done well to proactively ta…

> I hate to say it, but I think they will likely have to lose territory. I

I don't think it's territory what Putin wants. Even without its current territories, if Ukraine turns out to be successful and recover in the next 10 years, what will this mean to the Russian population? A total and absolute surrender of Ukraine is the end goal. No EU, no NATO, just another vassal-president and things go on like they were before 2022, but this time with half-destroyed country.

This war should have never started, I actually agree with Trump on this. But for that to happen, NATO should have entered Ukraine the first week after Putin did. And to those in Europe that argue against it, I would only say - are we better off now?

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#573
Maybe dumb question, but I asked ChatGPT search and didn't get a straight answer, so:

Why is Russia at war with Ukraine?

ChatGPT tells me it's because of "western alignment". Trump told reporters 1m people died. Seems a bit excessive to me for political ideas.. I'd have an easier time believing it's a resource conflict or some oil field being liberated or wtv.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#574

What sparked this heated discussion? Zelensky asked JD what if Putin breaks the agreed diplomacy as he had done previously?

It was already under tension because it looked like they couldn't come to terms. When Zelenskyy accuses Trump of being aligned with Putin, things started getting heated.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#575

1750 comments, why is it #25 on HN? All the while "3,200% CPU Utilization" with 100 comments is #1. Which is niche at best.

> Which is niche at best

Let me answer that bit first. Most good HN threads are "niche", meaning they are about things far less important than major events. This is on purpose, because if a story's importance were the criterion for HN's front page, then HN would be a current affairs site, and that is definitely not its mandate (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). One could even say that HN is more for unimportant things, as long as they gratify intellectual curiosity, but the most accurate way to put it is that importance alone is not a criterion.

A certain amount of political overlap has always been part of the mix (that's why the site guidelines say "most" and "probably" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426), but we're careful not to let that part get too large, because we want to preserve HN for its intended purpose.

Here are some links that point to lots of past explanations about this:

some political overlap is ok, but only some - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

not a current affairs site - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

optimizing for curiosity - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

not burning to a crisp - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

If you review the first part of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and then take a look at these links, and still have a question I haven't answered, I'd be happy to take a crack at it.

> 1750 comments, why is it #25 on HN?

This is answered in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html, but I'll expand on what it says there.

Number of comments doesn't make a thread rank higher on HN. Upvotes make it rank higher, and flags make it rank lower. At this moment the balance between upvotes and flags on this story (and other factors, like the time of submission) combine to rank it at #23 or so.

HN's front page is a product of 3 things: community moderation (e.g. upvotes, flags), software moderation (e.g. flamewar detector) and moderator action (e.g. turning off flags, downweighting, or selecting posts for the SCP - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308).

In this case, community moderation was removing the story from the front page altogether (because flags were dominating upvotes). I overrode that by turning off the flags. Why? Because whatever else one says about this story, it is an interesting new phenomenon (a phrase from https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). It may even be unprecedented.

However, I didn't turn off the flags to such a degree that the thread would be at #1 because it is not in HN's interest to have a divisive, indignant, and bellicose topic at the top of the front page. That would send the wrong message about what this site is for. Having this thread on the front page, but lower down, sends an accurate message about what this site is for. (As for what it is and isn't for—that is covered in the links I listed above.)

Another way of putting this is that while it's in HN's interest to have occasional threads on topics like this, it's important that the flames not burn so hot as to risk burning the site to a crisp. After the 'crisp' would come scorched earth, which is not interesting—it would do no good for HN to end up there. It's true that this tends to be the default fate of internet forums, but HN has right from the beginning (https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html) been an experiment in trying to stave that fate off for as long as possible.

scorched earth is not interesting - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

stave that off - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#578

Ukraine is in a bind, and the US has the power to do whatever it wants. But boy, will the nations of the world remember this -- how quickly the US can turn from ally to bully. A really bad day for US foreign policy. The EU is going to be thinking long and hard about the future of NATO now.

The EU needs to get armed to the teeth and to pile up on nukes. The US cannot be trusted, half of the country is compromised and that's not something that will change any time soon, even after Trump goes to meet his creator.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#579
I wonder what the GOP senators' reactions are to this very sharp turn? They had been strongly supportive of aid to Ukraine, pushing through funding. Maybe that was mostly McConnell and now that he's no longer majority leader, it fell by the wayside? Certainly the "traditional conservative GOP" would be horrified by these events. But maybe all those guys -- McCain, Romney, McConnell, are gone or on their way out.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#580
post #72

I wish the EU was more ... united. Most of the nations were woefully slow to act with Ukraine (hey let's send some token helmets). They've got a totalitarian regime invading democracies in their back yard but don't seem all that united about it ....

https://youtu.be/IwYVKptqH_o?si=wkGH8i_gY-_AfaK2&t=54

(Edit, this is from late 90s and the NATO action in Yugoslavia)

I thought this was an interesting take. And it's sad that the US has a man giving away our leadership. The world is in a dangerous place.

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