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DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

theatlantic.com

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Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#571

Post by FigurativeVoid »

cratermoon wrote: post #556
FigurativeVoid wrote: post #537

At my first gig, I had "god" level access to our production database. All I learned is that nobody should have this level of access unless it is some sort of temporary break glass situation. It is extremely dangerous and even experienced engineers can cause irreparable data loss or some other bad outcome. In our case, some engineer accidentally sent around 10,000 invoices to customers that shouldn't have gotten them.…

I loathe working places where they just give you all the permissions because it's "easier". One risk is if something does happen, and they don't have exceptional tracing and logging, (and let's be honest, at an organization sloppy enough to hand out privileges like candy, what's the chance of that?) it's difficult or impossible to pin down the source to any individual. As a result, both responsibility and suspicion i…

A second thought. It leads to lazy application development. Whenever you have production intervention that happens more than a few times, you should just make a feature that does it safely via application code.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#572

Post by IggleSniggle »

axus wrote: post #517

Government should have access to its own data. Justice and Congress should have the same access for oversight. The only problem I see is personal data about non-government people is being exposed to the entire planet. They should have developed good security practices first and maybe spent more than a week reviewing a plan, and not having a double standard about their own activities.

The thing is, Government already had access to its own data. It just was required to follow the law that was put in place by the voted in Legislature to prevent abusive situations that could arise from limitless unrestricted access without oversight. It was there, and even non-government citizens could get access to it by following the procedures; procedures put in place to prevent "selling the farm," voted on by elected officials, with the support of their constituents.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#573

Post by acdha »

axus wrote: post #517

Government should have access to its own data. Justice and Congress should have the same access for oversight. The only problem I see is personal data about non-government people is being exposed to the entire planet. They should have developed good security practices first and maybe spent more than a week reviewing a plan, and not having a double standard about their own activities.

The government already had access to its data, including oversight and regular auditing. This was solely about removing the safeguards so they didn’t have to follow good security practices or have a plan, and given how intensely politicized it has been it’s hard not to think that’s because the plan is not something they’d want to document where the public could see.

As an example, Musk mislead the public with claims about Social Security fraud. None of that was unknown, and in fact the independent inspector general had a much better quality report years ago where they confirmed that the old records did not show signs of fraud and recommended paths for improvement. DOGE made a lot of noise but added nothing but risk.

https://oig.ssa.gov/assets/uploads/a-06-21-51022.pdf

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#574

Post by blharr »

cm2187 wrote: post #116
scarab92 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk isn't a do-things-by-half kind of guy.

But also when you make cuts, you go hard, fast, and recover from there. Any effort of small trimming over a long period achieves no saving while producing the same negative publicity. I doubt such cutting effort will happen for another 30y. There is a french say I like. If you need to cut a dog’s tail, don’t cut an inch every day, chop the whole thing quick

Or is this slicing the dog in half?

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#575

Post by cratermoon »

dionian wrote: post #458
ideashower wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bureaucracies are a “common good” because of their human element: the ability to exercise discretion, recognize unique circumstances, and be held accountable to the public they serve. The challenge is harnessing technology while strengthening these essential human capacities. Anything otherwise erodes public trust and sows division.

I don't think unelected bureaucrats should have more power than the elected leaders of the Executive. Try the "shoe on the other foot" principle: Imagine if Trump put lifetime leaders in those agencies and they fought against the next Progressive president.

Elon Musk is an unelected bureaucrat, as is all of the DOGE team.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#576

Post by drowsspa »

ReptileMan wrote: post #109
drowsspa wrote: post #18

I find it wild that apparently there is no law onto which government workers can cling to refuse these requests. Is it all just based on conventions, goodwill and culture?

There is no constitutional way the president to not have access to any data in the executive branch. And since doge is reporting to him - it just send the data to the president and he will forward it to whomever he pleases. Even the concept of independent executive agencies is probably more vulnerable constitutionally than more people think.

Yeah, that's my point. Not even the president should have unrestricted access to that data. He's not a king or the head of a corporation. And government workers aren't his subjects or employees. In most places, at least honest government workers can stand their ground because they're backed by a law governing this access.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#577

Post by moduspol »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #525
borgster wrote: post #216

The President is the head of the executive branch. If _anyone_ in the executive branch has access to information, it feels like the presidents office should too. Why is this hard to accept?

Most people in the US don't know that there are three branches of government, or if they do, they don't know WHY there are three, and even if they know that, they don't know what each branch's purpose is. This is absolutely the job of the executive branch. Perhaps DOGE should have been created by an act of congress, but in reality that's just a formality because the Republicans control Congress right now.

Trump renamed USDS to DOGE via executive order. It's true that it's not an agency, but it was created during the Obama administration.

I'm not sure it'd be better as an agency because there are strict rules and hierarchies around agencies. The way DOGE is operating right now, seemingly, is:

- Agency directors are directed by executive order to work with DOGE and give them access to what they need

- DOGE team members are actually hired as employees of the agencies in which they are operating

- DOGE makes recommendations to agency directors on what things to cut

- Agency directors review recommendations and make cuts

This means that all cuts are being recommended and made within the scope of each individual agency. It is not the case that one agency is telling another what to do, and all decisions are ultimately being made by each agency's director. It simplifies the hierarchy and authority.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#578

Post by hamhock666 »

lucasyvas wrote: post #524
thih9 wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The team could then feed this classified information into AI tools, either for training purposes or to mine the data for insights. (Members of DOGE already reportedly have put sensitive data from the Education Department into AI software.) Perhaps it's cheaper to assume everything leaked or will leak soon.

Even if you were to argue AI systems would eventually have a place in government, which they almost certainly would have anyway long term, the sheer carelessness and lack of oversight of its implementation by a private citizen and group of individuals of proven, questionable ethics is enough reason in itself to have to burn the forest down. Thinking of it objectively, almost nobody here can say they would stand for t…

[flagged]

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#579

Post by axus »

dimal wrote: post #554
axus wrote: post #517

Government should have access to its own data. Justice and Congress should have the same access for oversight. The only problem I see is personal data about non-government people is being exposed to the entire planet. They should have developed good security practices first and maybe spent more than a week reviewing a plan, and not having a double standard about their own activities.

> Government should have access to its own data. Justice and Congress should have the same access for oversight. On its face, that’s a reasonable comment. But that’s not what’s happening here. This is not oversight. This is the world’s richest man arbitrarily seizing control of the government’s data. He’s able to do this because he bought the presidency for Trump. Are you ok with that?

I blame the people who were bought as much as the buyer, and the Citizens United decision for facilitating the buying.

I'm OK with democratic elections and executive appointments. I'm OK with the "read access" part of the control, the "write access" should only go as far as the laws passed by Congress permit.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#580

Post by gigatexal »

CyrsBel wrote: post #530
lucasyvas wrote: post #490

Because there are bigger fish to fry, I think people don’t appreciate the sheer cost of the system rebuild that will be required for security reasons later. There’s absolutely no telling what additional software has been installed alongside existing, or which systems have been modified that would require audit. Purging this will be an absolute fucking nightmare to the American taxpayer. This may turn into one of the…

Yes. Even if DOGE is operating without any ill intent, and I don't think they have ill intent, the possibility of errors alone is massive and they need to slow down. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/02/17/trum...

Elon wants to build the X everything app and nuked the CFPB to do it and now has access to the fed system… I think he’s just biding his time. Aaaaand now that he has every American’s info he can dox anyone on Twitter. Makes you think twice about telling Elonia to go fuck himself on X … which is why I do it on Mastodon and BlueSky ;-)
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