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Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

cbc.ca

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Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#571

Post by mannykannot »

ghostly_s wrote: post #532
arrowsmith wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably it helped that they crashed into a thick pile of snow in freezing conditions - I imagine that would slow the spread of the fire. But still, that’s astonishing footage in the Reddit post linked above. Incredible that no one died.

All that snow is going to do next to a jet fuel fire is create a lot of steam.

The crash kicked up a lot of snow into the air, making me wonder if that helped suppress the fireball, as it seemed to die down very quickly. On thing leading to me think this might have happened is video from the recent firefighting in California, where the spray from the firefighting aircraft seemed to snuff out the flames as soon as it descended into them, before it reached the ground.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#572

Post by b112 »

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #502
b112 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot imagine the logic of that, so not sure why that response. What I was referring to, is the potential for state actors to breed fear re: air travel. It would be crushing economically, and create general disarray via distrust of core services.

I wasn't replying to your comment. I don't think hacking is out of the question. I do think regulation changes in the last 4 weeks are an unlikely cause (were there even any?).

Sorry, I meant why the person you responded to meant that.

I cannot imagine it would affect anything so soon, and am unsure how it will affect anything. But certainly too soon.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#573

Post by imoverclocked »

fransje26 wrote: post #432
sitharus wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The METAR was 27028G35KT, or 28 gusting 35 from 270° magnetic However the runway landing was 33, or 330° magnetic. So this is 24-30kt crosswind component. The maximum landing crosswind on a dry runway is 32kt. The press conference reported the runway as dry, so if they’re correct then it’s within limits. At the reported -9°c if the runway has been de-iced it could be dry I guess? The surveillance potato camera makes…

> However the runway landing was 33, or 330° magnetic. They were landing on runway 23. > At the reported -9°c if the runway has been de-iced it could be dry I guess? From the NOTAM, the runway condition codes for 23 were 5/5/5, so not dry, but "good". [1] https://avherald.com/h?article=52439b47&opt=1

FYI: Canadian runways use true north, not magnetic.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#574

Post by tacostakohashi »

bolognafairy wrote: post #461
michaelt wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of explaining the passenger's behaviour, though - presumably they didn't know this, and didn't have time to research it on their phone during the crash. Airline customer service standards are very low; I can see how a person making the decision based on just their experience with airlines would conclude it was better to grab their carry-on if it was safe to do so.

Anyone that disregards explicit instruction by cabin crew, regarding safety, is an idiot, regardless. I give zero shits if you think you’re going to lose your stuff. And you should give zero shits if I’m going to lose mine. Don’t act like this is a class / means thing. It isn’t. This is just Americanism.

Not just an idiot, but also a criminal...

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#575

Post by bookofjoe »

psunavy03 wrote: post #558
rob74 wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... after they've completed all their checklists and are ready for takeoff, of course.

As a former aviator, the joke in the business is that a career in aviation is largely stupefying boredom interrupted by moments of sheer terror.

Also perfectly descriptive of being an anesthesiologist. We had a resident who, at the end of most OR days, even during his third (final) year of residency, would come into the ready room and remark, "Something really amazing happened today...."

The fact that this was still the case for him after anesthetizing thousands of patients was troubling to us attendings.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#576

Post by lolc »

throw0101c wrote: post #496
stranded22 wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for a different point of view, my wife is Type 1 Diabetic - no way she’d be leaving her medical stuff. It’s probably not that, but is possible.

> Just for a different point of view, my wife is Type 1 Diabetic - no way she’d be leaving her medical stuff. Perhaps a fanny pack would be a better idea: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_pack

A fanny pack is actually where my reserve insulin is at all times. And the pack is attached to me most of the time. There's also some sugar in there too.

People with T1 either have insulin pumps attached, or long-lasting insulin injected. They are not going to keel over from lack of insulin on most days, even if their pack is gone. Except if the pump stopped working hours ago, or they forgot to inject. Then they may be close to collapse already. And being away from sugar can become life-threatening quickly for people who shoot insulin. So overall they have a pretty good reason to always carry their stuff, even in an emergency. And yes, better always attached than in some bag than can get lost easily.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#577

Post by stergios »

jboggan wrote: post #494
eknkc wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why were they filming? Was there an early warning? Was it a sketchy landing in any case? I mean aircraft are fascinating and people film them all the time but wouldn’t expect a pilot sitting in another one to casually film landings. Maybe just an extremely lucky catch.

I think most pilots could take one look at that approach and see they were coming in too fast. As many have said, that looked more like a carrier landing than an airstrip approach.

Flight radar shows a normalized approach where speed and altitude conform to that standard. I wonder if late wind shear was the issue.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#578

Post by chris_va »

leoedin wrote: post #395
lqet wrote: post #356

The consensus on r/aviation seems to be that it was caused by wind shear. > This looks like wind shear to me. It was a stable approach and then it suddenly got slammed into the ground. That doesn't look like pilot-induced change in descent rate, it is too sudden for that. A sudden change in wind direction (shear) when that slow can absolutely cause a sudden loss of lift. > We have had almost 2 feet of snow up here si…

Wake turbulence almost killed someone I knew flying a training jet. He landed after a heavy aircraft and the cross wind was just enough to counter the natural spreading of wake turbulence. There was basically a horizontal tornado over the runway. When he hit it he lost all roll control. He ended up ejecting horizontally across the grass and somehow survived.

That was my first thought too.

I've been flipped slideways flying short final (cessna) by a heavy jet that departed 90 seconds prior on a parallel runway. Fortunately I was high enough to recover, but it could have gone very differently.

Wind shear seems more likely this close to the ground, but I'm sure we'll get a nice write-up after the investigation.

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