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What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

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Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#571

Post by ReptileMan »

aunetx wrote: post #541
ReptileMan wrote: post #526

[flagged]

So free speech is not a constitutionnal right if I follow your argument? You sound quite scary right now... (and I am not even concerned, not american)

Things become a bit more murky when you free speech while on somebody's payroll and representing them. Commercial speech has somewhat less protections than regular speech.

And anyway the first amendment is about the congress. It doesn't limit the capacity of the executive branch to do ideological purges as the McArthysm period showed. Although it did got limited by the courts - from the reading of case law it had to do more with the fifth amendment and not first.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#572

Post by DecoySalamander »

whatthedangit wrote: post #75
joe_the_user wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I find strange is that the other wealthy and powerful stand for the destruction of things that gave the US a huge competitive advantage. The average person isn't hit immediately by the destruction of science. But a far-sighted person with some power should by self-interest not want this. And this, I think, points to the corruption of the entire political class in America with just being upshot.

I believe that what we're not accounting for is the belief among many wealthy people that scientific research and all other intellectual labor will soon be automated by AI. I believe that what those wealthy people aren't accounting for is the need for some class of humans to act as a translation layer between the expert AI systems and the rest of us in order to allow the discoveries and results to percolate through h…

But are they wrong? I'm pretty sure that I can ask any LLM to produce a followup for "Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity" and get one as good, or even better than the original. Lack of percolation would actually be an improvement.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#573

Post by nlitened »

oglop wrote: post #462

[flagged]

How about we let senile old men sign executive orders they are unable to read in full or recall half an hour later? At least we will not know who’s making those executive orders, so we will not have some easy target to complain about.

Also probably better not cut government spending at all (lest we cut something important), until federal debt servicing exceeds all other spendings combined, and dollar spirals into hyperinflation.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#574

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

newsclues wrote: post #563
belter wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I recall an election recently not a coup. List of dictators that achieved power via what were at the time, free and fair elections: Adolf Hitler - 1933 Ferdinand Marcos - 1965 Alberto Fujimori - 1990 Robert Mugabe - 1980 Alexander Lukashenko - 1994 Hugo Chávez - 1998

Which of these was elected, lost power, and were elected again? Normally dictators don’t let go of power

Trump tried not to let go of power the first time, but he wasn't able to overturn the election.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#575

Post by nrawe »

unsnap_biceps wrote: post #169
switchbak wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The president just threatened Greenland with military action. That is absolutely fucking unprecedented in living memory, and well before. And that passed without much more than an exasperated sigh. No, I think the populace will go along with whatever these folks deem acceptable. It’s like a bad movie.

The latest is that the US is gonna take over Gaza and deport everyone there. I do wonder if there's any hot button items anymore.

I'm not American, but my read of this announcement looks something like:

* The Trump Administration doesn't believe in the two state solution stalemate. * They have leverage over The Netanyahu Administration in Israel due to the ongoing military support needed. * The Netanyahu Administration wants to incorporate Gaza into Israel as also doesn't believe in two state solution but cannot do so without repercussions. * US could take over Gaza as the West won't sanction it, China needs to sell to it, RoW not an issue. * Trump wants US to take over Gaza, use US corps and workers to rebuild paid for by Israel, and then sell back to Israel at a later time.

I don't agree with that position but I think that's what the deal looks like overall.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#576

Post by addandsubtract »

khazhoux wrote: post #364
ergonaught wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time there is any actual mass recognition of what is happening, nevermind any attempt to intervene, it will be far too late. There was a successful coup and the USA as such has fallen, now presumably on the route to failing.

Not a coup. Trump said he was going to dismantle the government, and the majority empowered him to do so.

An auto coup is still a coup.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#577

Post by jimkleiber »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #536
Gabriel54 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not happy with what is going on, to be clear. But I am also not surprised that it is happening, and furthermore I don't believe there was any other alternative to this scorched earth war against DEI. If one had any reservations against DEI before, one would speak only in whispers. Now the backlash is here.

You want all scientific research in the US halted, just because the term "pregnant people" bothers you? Look, I think the term is a bit cringeworthy, but ripping up the entire US scientific system over that is psychotic.

The issue is cultural and they think the cultural issue will change by slashing the government, not realizing the cultural issue doesn't come from government.

I think it was someone on the right, Steve Bannon or even Andrew Breitbarting, that said politics follows culture. So to focus on culture first.

They're trying to change culture at the political level, and I'm not sure that's how it works.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#578

Post by jimkleiber »

scarab92 wrote: post #310
relaxing wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Academics should keep in mind that they rely on the generosity of taxpayers to fund their research. They don’t have an entitlement to other people’s money, and if they are perceived as wasting it or spending in discriminatorily then you should expect the public to become less willing to give it to you.

Ah, your post helped me realize that a lot of people probably have an anger or resentment towards academics. So maybe part of it is DEI, part of it is the resentment towards the kids in school who always knew the answers.

I'm not saying this is what's coming from you, just reminded me of how many people have had so much animosity towards me over the years because of my intelligence, or maybe more so, my confidence in my intelligence. A jealousy/envy/admiration all mixed together.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#580

Post by CalRobert »

brylie wrote: post #497
jmward01 wrote: post #490

This is a coup and we are calmly debating budgets. Debating the % of budget and how useful organization x is and if y will still get grant money, and, and, and... All of this is ignoring the big elephant in the room that there is one single person deciding everything that happens in government as if they were a king. The right thing to be debating is how we can stop this from continuing and how we can hold those resp…

As an expat in the EU, I have a surreal sense of being a bystander at an ongoing emergency scene. I don’t want to be yet another gawker as this situation is unfolding but am struggling to come up with actions that are within my power to take as a form of protest, resistance, or solidarity. What are some practical actions that we can take to resist these sweeping changes?

Similar (moved to the EU 12 years ago)

The best thing I can think of is to make the EU a strong, powerful, wealthy democracy that can defend itself from invasion and try to encourage other democracies around the world.

Which means we have a lot of work ahead, to put it mildly.

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