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Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

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Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#571

Someone might have already pointed it out but for me, the sentence of RA is not the main issue, the issue is allowing a single person to stamp through an entire legal system and undermine all of the time and money that is invested in it, even if that person is a president. I suspect that the idea originally was to give some safety valve but if it is used more than a few times by a President, it makes a mockery of it…

The main failure here is the failure of the elections system to elect anyone reasonable. On its own it is not that bad an idea for someone who carries a mandate of the majority of the population to be able to grant pardons.

Honest question/thought experiment: if we only elected people who are qualified for their job (assume we can measure competence at least in some dimensions like we do for a myriad of other professions before we allow people to work in them) and if the election process was set up in a way where when casting your ballot you have to take a multiple choice quiz which tests for basic knowledge on what you will vote for and the country you’re in (as in “what is the household budget roughly, is this candidate in favour or against x, did the crime rate increase or decrease nominally” take these as rough examples of what I mean), to ensure that the people who vote for something have some clue what they are voting for and the broader context it’s embedded in (we require a license to drive a car, this would be akin to have a having a license to vote) would that remedy the situation a little? The idea would be that informed people would vote for informed people. Could you imagine this being a net benefit or not? I would assume it would make democracies significantly better than they are now. Imagine going to a doctors office to find out your doctor is a Plummer and he was voted into this job and that the people working for him and handling your prescription is a random assortment of people he seems to like.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#572

I think his original sentence was absolutely deserved—even though the charge of hiring a contract killer to assassinate his business competition may have been dropped, I think it's clear he did many things in the same vein. Even if you support his original pursuit of a free and open online marketplace, I think most people would agree he took it a bridge too far in the end. That said, I do think he absolutely deserved…

"he took it a bridge too far" is a massive trivialization. The guy operated a marketplace for illegal goods in order to enrich himself. The illegality wasn't just incidental, it was literally his business model -- by flouting the law, he enjoyed massive market benefit (minimal competition, lack of regulation, high margins etc) by exploiting the arbitrage that the rest of us follow the rules. Said a different way, he…

> he knowingly pursued enormous risk in order to achieve outsized benefits

Like it or not, this makes him a heroic figure in the eyes of many people.

> we shouldn't have bailed him out

Bailing him out comes at no cost. Letting him rot in prison provides no benefit to anyone.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#573

Someone might have already pointed it out but for me, the sentence of RA is not the main issue, the issue is allowing a single person to stamp through an entire legal system and undermine all of the time and money that is invested in it, even if that person is a president. I suspect that the idea originally was to give some safety valve but if it is used more than a few times by a President, it makes a mockery of it…

Did you say this about Biden pardoning his whole family for their crimes, or just the ones Trump issued?

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#574

Someone might have already pointed it out but for me, the sentence of RA is not the main issue, the issue is allowing a single person to stamp through an entire legal system and undermine all of the time and money that is invested in it, even if that person is a president. I suspect that the idea originally was to give some safety valve but if it is used more than a few times by a President, it makes a mockery of it…

> I suspect that the idea originally was to give some safety valve

That reminds me of the early 2000s, where there were a lot of US debates around around terrorism and "harsh interrogations" i.e. torture.

A certain bloc of politicians and commentators kept bringing up a hypothetical scenario where there was a nuclear bomb counting down, and some guy wouldn't admit where it was hidden in a major city. My favorite response to that involved presidential pardons, something along the lines of:

1. "So what? If everything you say is true, then the authorities would simply torture the guy and seek a pardon afterwards. We already have an exceptional mechanism for those exceptional situations, meaning that's not a reason to change it."

2. "Conversely, any interrogator who isn't confident of a pardon is on who does not believe it's at ticking-bomb situation, meaning they cannot justify torturing someone anyway, they just want to do it to make their job marginally easier. That's bad, so it should stay illegal."

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#575

Someone might have already pointed it out but for me, the sentence of RA is not the main issue, the issue is allowing a single person to stamp through an entire legal system and undermine all of the time and money that is invested in it, even if that person is a president. I suspect that the idea originally was to give some safety valve but if it is used more than a few times by a President, it makes a mockery of it…

The main failure here is the failure of the elections system to elect anyone reasonable. On its own it is not that bad an idea for someone who carries a mandate of the majority of the population to be able to grant pardons.

> On its own

The reality is in front of you. So, you can't look at this "on its own".

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#576

I think his original sentence was absolutely deserved—even though the charge of hiring a contract killer to assassinate his business competition may have been dropped, I think it's clear he did many things in the same vein. Even if you support his original pursuit of a free and open online marketplace, I think most people would agree he took it a bridge too far in the end. That said, I do think he absolutely deserved…

Ross Ulbricht was widely regarded by friends and family as a fundamentally decent and idealistic person—if admittedly naïve about the implications of his actions. Those who knew him personally describe him as thoughtful, intelligent, and motivated by a vision of a freer and more equitable society. His philosophical motivations were rooted in libertarian ideals, particularly the belief that consenting adults should ha…

Then why did he run a site which allowed people to order hits on people? If it was just an online drug marketplace, that would have been a different matter.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#577
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When the FBI agents stopped to have a drink I thought You mean "when I read the part where the FBI agents stopped to have a drink I thought"? This part makes your comment super confusing. Where you there then or later?

I thought that starting my story in media res would make for a better dramatic effect, but it seems I overestimated my audience and went a little too heavy on the narrative ellipsis.

> it seems I overestimated my audience

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, somebody who aspires to be a better writer. But, no, this clarifies that you're just pretentious.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#578

Paraphrasing an aphorism I saw elsewhere: "Crime is legal now".

Crime has always been legal for the ones with money and the right connections.

Biden pardonning his son and other criminals also made this clear.

Most people are becoming aware most politicians are actually criminals in suits.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#579

Someone might have already pointed it out but for me, the sentence of RA is not the main issue, the issue is allowing a single person to stamp through an entire legal system and undermine all of the time and money that is invested in it, even if that person is a president. I suspect that the idea originally was to give some safety valve but if it is used more than a few times by a President, it makes a mockery of it…

Did you say this about Biden pardoning his whole family for their crimes, or just the ones Trump issued?

Not GP, but yes.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#580

Someone might have already pointed it out but for me, the sentence of RA is not the main issue, the issue is allowing a single person to stamp through an entire legal system and undermine all of the time and money that is invested in it, even if that person is a president. I suspect that the idea originally was to give some safety valve but if it is used more than a few times by a President, it makes a mockery of it…

It is a relic from the time when most countries had kings who could pardon people.
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