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New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

washingtonpost.com

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Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#571

Post by lc9er »

stickfigure wrote: post #342
legitster wrote: post #323

> The two sides negotiated until late Sunday. The sticking points in recent days were over whether they could get a “just cause” provision in their contract, which means workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason; pay increases and pay equity; and return-to-office policies. This seems like a LOT of issues that still need to be hammered out. It would be one thing if they were disagreeing abou…

> workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason This is such a weird request for technology workers. You want to work with low-performing coworkers?

Most of the anti-union tech workers I've encountered over my career have vastly overestimated their abilities and value to the workforce. Their willingness to suffer abuse from employers (while taking pride in their refusal to establish boundaries) makes working conditions worse for all of us.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#572

Post by krainboltgreene »

gruez wrote: post #517
krainboltgreene wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not fine. It sucks for just about everyone involved except the business owner.

This fails to consider second order effects. Adding more friction to firings also makes teams less performant (as they fail to get rid of underperforming employees), as makes finding a job more difficult (because companies are more reluctant to hire on the off chance they get a bad employee they can't get rid of). This isn't theoretical. Returns suck for retailers, but they still voluntarily offer it because it entic…

There's no evidence that "adding more friction to firings also makes teams less performant". Your statement relies on two assumptions: (1) employers are reliable at determining "underperforming", (2) employers are making choices based of performance. There's no evidence that it makes "finding a job more difficult". There are entire swaths of this earth that have the framework that we're talking about and their job markets are just fine.

I know that an online form makes it easy to just position yourself as correct, but you're arguing against reality.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#573

Post by lolinder »

donohoe wrote: post #561
calibas wrote: post #431

Why would anybody trust a NYT article about internal drama at the NYT? Does HN not understand bias? Compare the NYT article to other reporting, and you can see the difference. There's a few things the NYT forgot to mention, like the fact that these negotiations have been drawn out for 2 years now. Or this: "Throughout the bargaining process, Times management has engaged in numerous labor law violations, including imp…

Hello - former NYT employee here, who would have been part of the Guild union if I worked there still. The story is written by a reporter, Katie Robertson, who is also part of their own union (Times Guild). The Times has been pretty good at covering itself imho.

> who is also part of their own union (Times Guild).

This doesn't remove the conflict of interest because it's not the same union. Those in the other unions may well be more sympathetic to the company than to the strikers, especially given the timing of the strike.

It's likely interfering with their jobs right now in pursuit of a negotiation that they don't stand to gain from.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#574

Post by School-Cotton »

Xelynega wrote: post #546
School-Cotton wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a foreigner I strongly suspect that, as usual in discussions like this, by “foreigner” you specifically mean “European” or “Canadian” or “Australian”. The US is surely not alone in having a relative lack of legally mandated job security.

It's unique in that it's a country with h western values with relatively underdeveloped worker protections. Sure places like Saudi have literal slavery, but they don't pretend to value life either.

"Western values" is too broad, IMO. The US and Europe are fundamentally different civilizations despite a shared cultural root (centuries ago).

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#575

Post by drawkward »

abletonlive wrote: post #557
drawkward wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the current definition of progressivism It's a fairly pro-business paper, certainly not very critical of Israel, and you appear to have completely missed all of its somewhat trans-skeptical reporting and opinion. (The latter pervasive enough to rankle many of its own employees about the tone and tenor of NYT coverage of trans issues.)

I like the implication that being "trans-skeptical" is "non-progressive" and therefore to be a progressive you have to buy into the ideology without questioning anything. That does align with my current views of where progressive ideology is headed

I think the bulk of the pro-trans movement would consider themselves progressive. I think that the bulk of progressives would consider themselves pro-trans.

I don't consider myself a progressive for just this reason. I would be considered a TERF by the trans community, not because I think trans people don't exist or arent worth of love, employment, and respect, but rather because there are some hot issues (bathroom access, sports access, how to handle children permanently transitioning, replacing cisgendered terminology in medical textbooks) that I believe merit more study or nuanced approaches.

At the end of the day, it comes down to the question of who has the right to define what labels, and I think most progressives would not call you a progressive if you don't 100% accept trans rights. Of course, this demands lockstep ideological behavior, which is rarely a good thing for long. Could you be progressive on some issues and not others? Certainly! But which mix defines you as "progressive" or not is not up to me.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#576

Post by yieldcrv »

legitster wrote: post #323

> The two sides negotiated until late Sunday. The sticking points in recent days were over whether they could get a “just cause” provision in their contract, which means workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason; pay increases and pay equity; and return-to-office policies. This seems like a LOT of issues that still need to be hammered out. It would be one thing if they were disagreeing abou…

> Striking during election week is kind of a crappy move to pull.

According to the NY Times article, this was outlined and agreed to by the union on September 10th. So this is the poison pill because the agreement wasn't finished over the last 2 months.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#577

Post by bloomingkales »

sealeck wrote: post #470
calibas wrote: post #431

Why would anybody trust a NYT article about internal drama at the NYT? Does HN not understand bias? Compare the NYT article to other reporting, and you can see the difference. There's a few things the NYT forgot to mention, like the fact that these negotiations have been drawn out for 2 years now. Or this: "Throughout the bargaining process, Times management has engaged in numerous labor law violations, including imp…

@dang would it be better to change the link to an article from another (reputable) newspaper?

Oddly, the NYT itself would agree with this gem of a source:

https://nypost.com/2024/09/17/media/ny-times-tech-unions-biz...

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#578

Post by JumpCrisscross »

slg wrote: post #564
bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds good, but in my experience bad employees were known to everyone. It was difficult to pinpoint exactly why they were bad or toxic, but pretty much everyone agreed. If you gave them some benchmark they would need to hit (e.g. close tickets, be on call, etc), they would be able to do so. So creating a documentation trail is difficult, especially if its based on people saying they don't think he does good wor…

>If you gave them some benchmark they would need to hit (e.g. close tickets, be on call, etc), they would be able to do so. Isn't this just a sign of bad management? If employees are capable of doing the work when their job is on the line, it isn't a question of skill or ability. It is a failure of the company to properly motivate, challenge, and reward them for their work.

> Isn't this just a sign of bad management? If employees are capable of doing the work when their job is on the line

It’s HN. We’ve all been maliciously compliant. I can close tickets without solving any problems or be on call in the most useless ways imaginable just fine.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#579

Post by bb611 »

donohoe wrote: post #561
calibas wrote: post #431

Why would anybody trust a NYT article about internal drama at the NYT? Does HN not understand bias? Compare the NYT article to other reporting, and you can see the difference. There's a few things the NYT forgot to mention, like the fact that these negotiations have been drawn out for 2 years now. Or this: "Throughout the bargaining process, Times management has engaged in numerous labor law violations, including imp…

Hello - former NYT employee here, who would have been part of the Guild union if I worked there still. The story is written by a reporter, Katie Robertson, who is also part of their own union (Times Guild). The Times has been pretty good at covering itself imho.

NYT's political coverage has been extremely poor this year, with very obvious editorial control preventing negative coverage of Trump.

It's not obvious to me they have a bias here, but given the clear systemic issues in other reporting it's reasonable to bring a skeptical view to their own reporting.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#580

Post by sowut »

calibas wrote: post #431

Why would anybody trust a NYT article about internal drama at the NYT? Does HN not understand bias? Compare the NYT article to other reporting, and you can see the difference. There's a few things the NYT forgot to mention, like the fact that these negotiations have been drawn out for 2 years now. Or this: "Throughout the bargaining process, Times management has engaged in numerous labor law violations, including imp…

"Times management has engaged in numerous labor law violations, including implementing return-to-office mandates without bargaining"

this is insane. you can't require your workers to come into an office anymore? that's against the law?

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