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"We ran out of columns"

jimmyhmiller.github.io

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Re: "We ran out of columns"

#571

Post by tommica »

noisy_boy wrote: post #451
RadiozRadioz wrote: post #172

I built a system as horrible as this. One of my many terrible inventions was as follows: Originally our company only did business in one marketplace (the UK). When we started doing business in multiple marketplaces, it came time to modify the system to cope with more than one. Our system assumed, _everywhere_, that there was only ever one marketplace. I had a plan: I would copy-paste the system, make an "internationa…

Time to create a third "Global" system.

"We got this customer on Mars, can we make a "Planetary" variant of the product?"

Re: "We ran out of columns"

#572

Post by fijiaarone »

coldtea wrote: post #503
acchow wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Git is not a natural development at all. Obviously, it is a standard right now. Most standard tools we use today are not obvious to beginners nor would they be the first thing that beginners reach for. But senior developers can understand the problems that they claim to address, and why they are important and common problems.

> But senior developers can understand the problems that they claim to address, and why they are important and common problems. Senior developers have simply grown accustomed to the warts, and accepted their fate - some even celebrating their mastery of the warts as necessary knowledge. The only pragmatic reason not to change things is the compatibility chaos that will ensue and the resources required - not that prob…

> some even celebrating their mastery of the warts as necessary knowledge.

Hi git fans!

Re: "We ran out of columns"

#573

Post by fijiaarone »

treflop wrote: post #334
bsder wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Git is not a natural development at all. Obviously, it is a standard right now. Git is actually an unnatural development. Its UI is atrocious. And it worked like crap on Windows for forever. Over time, I taught non-computer people who used Windows all of CVS, Subversion, and Mercurial. They got each one and why things were better. The first time they had to recover something, they really got it. Source control got…

GitHub won because it was good. SourceForge had a messy interface and frankly I hated it. Google Code was like frozen in time, like most Google projects. Microsoft’s thing — I don’t even remember the name — felt half assed and like they were going to abandon it… and they abandoned it. There were also others… none of which I even think were serious enough. Also Git won because SVN and CVS were centralized VCSes and yo…

If git doesn't need a server, then why do you need Github?

Re: "We ran out of columns"

#574

Post by fijiaarone »

foundthebeef wrote: post #496
bsder wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Git is not a natural development at all. Obviously, it is a standard right now. Git is actually an unnatural development. Its UI is atrocious. And it worked like crap on Windows for forever. Over time, I taught non-computer people who used Windows all of CVS, Subversion, and Mercurial. They got each one and why things were better. The first time they had to recover something, they really got it. Source control got…

git isn't foisted on anyone, although I will acknowledge that if you're working anywhere remotely web-y, you'll be required to use it. But the vast majority of people I personally see who complain about git simply don't know how to use it, and apparently don't care to learn. They say it's hard, and then they joke about never learning more than three git commands. Can't we do better? Is that where the bar is?

It's not that the basics of git are hard. It's that there are 30 footguns you're forced to deal with every time you want to do anything, just because someone somewhere once had to use one of them -- probably caused by another one of them.

Git lovers mostly use it as a file copy service.

Re: "We ran out of columns"

#576

Post by CRConrad »

samatman wrote: post #325
bsder wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Git is not a natural development at all. Obviously, it is a standard right now. Git is actually an unnatural development. Its UI is atrocious. And it worked like crap on Windows for forever. Over time, I taught non-computer people who used Windows all of CVS, Subversion, and Mercurial. They got each one and why things were better. The first time they had to recover something, they really got it. Source control got…

GitHub won because they built a great product. It was better than all the alternatives and people flocked to it for that reason. Git itself is mediocre, and some other DVCS like Mercurial could have won out, although HgHub really doesn't have the same ring to it. The halo effect from the Linux kernel was also a factor. But the VC cash dump and Microsoft buyout came later, people used GitHub because it was better than…

It's sad that this discussion about git being the standard turned into "Why GitHub won" -- shows that people conflate the two. Who said GitHub had anything to do with git becoming the standard in the first place? (I only even heard of GitHub long after we'd adopted git at a previous workplace.)

Re: "We ran out of columns"

#577

Post by CRConrad »

treflop wrote: post #334
bsder wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Git is not a natural development at all. Obviously, it is a standard right now. Git is actually an unnatural development. Its UI is atrocious. And it worked like crap on Windows for forever. Over time, I taught non-computer people who used Windows all of CVS, Subversion, and Mercurial. They got each one and why things were better. The first time they had to recover something, they really got it. Source control got…

GitHub won because it was good. SourceForge had a messy interface and frankly I hated it. Google Code was like frozen in time, like most Google projects. Microsoft’s thing — I don’t even remember the name — felt half assed and like they were going to abandon it… and they abandoned it. There were also others… none of which I even think were serious enough. Also Git won because SVN and CVS were centralized VCSes and yo…

This discussion was about git, not GitHub. There's a difference.

Re: "We ran out of columns"

#578

Post by CRConrad »

jsmeaton wrote: post #308
chris_wot wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

git didn't win because of GitHub. Sure, GitHub helped a lot. But actually, it's because its a DVCS, and it does branching and merging way better than anything I've seen so far. You can thank BitKeeper for all of this, and Andrew Tridgwell for forcing Linus Torvalds into creating git.

You don’t think if the company behind GitHub went all-in on mercurial that might have emerged as the winner? There were plenty of companies using either. Git wasn’t the only distributed game in town. I definitely think GitHub had a lot to do with it.

> I definitely think GitHub had a lot to do with it.

And I definitely think you're wrong. GitHub has managed to get itself conflated with git, and has benefitting hugely from this confusion.

Re: "We ran out of columns"

#579

Post by CRConrad »

cruffle_duffle wrote: post #357
oooyay wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before there was GitHub there was Sourceforge. Sourceforge supported several different protocols and git still won. Gits internals can be confusing at first, but once you understand them there's really nothing you can't do. Being distributed by design also helps.

Sourceforge was complete garbage though. I hated, hated when projects were hosted on it. It was slow, full of ads, impossible to find what you need to download.. GitHub is to sourceforge what Facebook was to MySpace. MySpace was first but it was buggy as hell.

You're kind of disproving the point you're trying to make, IMO: Saying "GitHub made git the standard!" is kind of like saying "Facebook invented social media!"

Nope, MySpace did. Or blogs, for that matter. Facebook just co-opted the phenomenon, and has for many become synonymous with it. Just like GitHub has managed to do with git.

Re: "We ran out of columns"

#580

Post by CRConrad »

immibis wrote: post #345
oooyay wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before there was GitHub there was Sourceforge. Sourceforge supported several different protocols and git still won. Gits internals can be confusing at first, but once you understand them there's really nothing you can't do. Being distributed by design also helps.

Sourceforge isn't GitHub. What's the relevance? If you think SF+CVS is equivalent to GitHub+Git then you never used SF+CVS. Git won because of GitHub, specifically, not because generically it could be hosted on the Internet.

No, GitHub won because of git, lots of VC (later MS) money, and brilliant marketing that makes people think "Git won because of GitHub".
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