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No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

robkhenderson.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#571

Post by trod123 »

This really is not the greatest article in my opinion.

Much of the rhetoric follows circular reasoning without solid evidence and is mostly biased opinion.

What is promoted as forgone conclusions, is harmful, and follows along similar lines to Critical Theory seen in Marxism and its more modern derivatives.

Ultimately the issues come down to the social norms which have been degraded, while also not going into why or how those social norms were actually degraded (in any real fashion).

Critical Theory is caustic, and promotes nihilism and the absence of a cohesive cultural/social norms or mores. We have seen this more definitively recently with the Woke, but its been ongoing since the 70s.

If the author was at all genuine in their coverage, they would at least have covered this in some reduced fashion, it seems telling that no mention is made about the actual causes.

Instead, the overarching structure and themes are blame unemployment, then blame the men for being selfish (needing respect), then blame the rich who lie, but its not the mothers fault (so you can't blame them). In essence, its blame everyone but the group who is contributing most to the problem (those with the snake tongues pushing critical theory to distort reflected appraisal).

All said, its very childlike, and on its face the article checks almost all of the boxes to be considered soft-socialist/communist propaganda.

The article fails to follow rational principles (utilizing multiple fallacies with little to no direct support), it hits common socialist talking points. These include aspects where foregone conclusions are drawn towards destructive interference of gender relations, employer relations, government/societal relations, and western identity/concepts [indirectly].

The article presents much opinion as fact, and while some of the numbers referenced are correct in isolated cases the conclusions drawn are not.

In my opinion, the author lost all credibility by the end of the article, and it is clear they are promoting harmful narratives that don't address the underlying issue.

TL;DR don't bother reading the article; it has no real insight into the problem.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#572

Post by acdha »

Dalewyn wrote: post #549
acdha wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

35 is 15% larger than 30. Our measurements for unemployment are precise enough that it’s not just margin of error. At the moment, that’s a change of 16 million people. A century ago, it was 5 million people. Both of those numbers are large enough that they absolutely would get attention and public discussion.

I think you are failing to understand my point: If something trends give or take 30% for 80 years or more, a +/-3% variance is a fucking rounding error. I don't care if it's home ownership or unemployment or whatever the number is, it is a rounding error not worthy of concern. It's like the lowering and rising of the tides. It goes up and down, but the sea level remains basically the same overall; thus, nobody cares…

Because the economy is a complex system which is constantly changing, and it’s important not to lose track of why we measure it. A 5% charge likely isn’t evenly distributed, and the real impacts are often masked – if a major industry moves offshore, there are inevitably regional impacts more significant than the national average and if a bunch of people get new jobs working at McDonald’s or delivering Amazon packages it matters that they and their communities are poorer even if it looks like the unemployment rate is back to where it was 3 years ago. The minor fluctuations are the cue to look at the responsible factors, not to say “meh, it’s 15%, not 50%” and ignore it.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#573

Post by squigz »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #448
jjk166 wrote: post #322

This whole article is talking about absentee fathers, but every example is listing why the mother left or kicked out the father. Nowhere in the article is mentioned the obvious common denominator - women are no longer utterly dependent on their husbands. People didn't stay together more often in the 50s because the couples were better, or because people were held to higher standards, it was because getting out of a t…

> the world has changed, mostly for the better This remains to be seen, honestly There are an awful lot of unhappy men out there and they are going to boil over eventually

Let's hope they learn to grow up before that.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#574

Post by mmaniac »

pwthornton wrote: post #566
mmaniac wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Independence achieved at last, for men and women.

What kind of bum doesn't take care of your kids? That's no independence. That's a dereliction of duty. Pure incel talk. Pure loser talk. Who wants to go through life being a loser?

Incels with kids? Get your narrative straight before you blow a gasket.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#575

Post by calf »

rramadass wrote: post #522
calf wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's just an Industrial-stage family structure. Loosely speaking. It's not that interesting and not fair to compare that with post-industrial neoliberal societies in the West. (I'm East Asian American.)

I am not quite sure whether your comment is sarcasm or not. But assuming it is not, this is exactly what i wanted to point out. Societies have changed but the fundamental Human values have not and so that should have been maintained in some form during the process of change. We are Biological organisms with the same desires/fears/emotions/feelings as our forefathers but only the societal context has changed. While we…

It's your opinion what changes are too much, but your metaargument cannot answer that question which makes it sophistry to use the metaargument to argue for political moderation. Also, find a scientist who agrees with you that human values are historically invariant. It's just not true.

What's more likely is you are conservative and misusing logical arguments to rationalize your actual political opinion. It's ignorant at best, disingenuous at worst.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#576

Post by yencabulator »

pwthornton wrote: post #565
portpecos wrote: post #366

> Amy, a white thirty-year-old mother of three, ages six, five, and three, had a boyfriend who worked steadily but insisted on spending on selfish pursuits. This is what eventually broke the young couple up. ‘He wouldn’t spend money for the kids’ food. I had to send my kids across the street to my mom’s to feed them and stuff. That’s what I got fed up with. I shouldn’t have to live like that…I said it’s time for him…

I don't know why you assumed they weren't his kids. The article implied they were. It is unclear, but there is no evidence that they aren't his and certainly no evidence that her kids all have different fathers. This is incel talk.

Your comment would have been so much more effective without the last sentence.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#577

Post by big-green-man »

squigz wrote: post #569
big-green-man wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why youre quoting "perfect adult", I didn't use that term once. I said "ideal middle class man." And it is. Every reasonable woman wants that, every man wants to be at least that, yet most men don't check every one of those boxes, particularly being able to provide a comfortable lifestyle without working all the time, that one is maybe 10% of men. A good starting goal? Sure. Table stakes? Good luck.

You literally did. > Being the perfect adult is table stakes? This description is the ideal middle class man. If that's table stakes to you, either you've got one hell of a catch or you've got a few more years left before you settle. Most adults, full grown adults, men and women, don't meet all those requirements. I do, most don't.

Alright, so you win that one lol. I glossed over my own comment. Still, I was using the term very obviously hyperbolically, and still referred explicitly to the "ideal middle class man."

So let's do something. What is the perfect adult? how does the perfect adult, not billionaire level or something like that but perfect middle class man, differ from your table stakes? I can guess tall and incredibly handsome, but beyond that, how is he better than your bare minimum requirements?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#578

Post by squigz »

big-green-man wrote: post #577
squigz wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You literally did. > Being the perfect adult is table stakes? This description is the ideal middle class man. If that's table stakes to you, either you've got one hell of a catch or you've got a few more years left before you settle. Most adults, full grown adults, men and women, don't meet all those requirements. I do, most don't.

Alright, so you win that one lol. I glossed over my own comment. Still, I was using the term very obviously hyperbolically, and still referred explicitly to the "ideal middle class man." So let's do something. What is the perfect adult? how does the perfect adult, not billionaire level or something like that but perfect middle class man, differ from your table stakes? I can guess tall and incredibly handsome, but bey…

Have you considered that maybe there isn't a "perfect" or "ideal" person, of either sex? Other than "providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time" (which is arguable even what that means), the things listed above are literally just being an adult in a mature relationship. Helping with chores? Being emotionally available? Knowing how to hold a conversation? How are these qualities that you think are so difficult to attain that only the "ideal" man has them?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#579

Post by rramadass »

calf wrote: post #575
rramadass wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not quite sure whether your comment is sarcasm or not. But assuming it is not, this is exactly what i wanted to point out. Societies have changed but the fundamental Human values have not and so that should have been maintained in some form during the process of change. We are Biological organisms with the same desires/fears/emotions/feelings as our forefathers but only the societal context has changed. While we…

It's your opinion what changes are too much, but your metaargument cannot answer that question which makes it sophistry to use the metaargument to argue for political moderation. Also, find a scientist who agrees with you that human values are historically invariant. It's just not true. What's more likely is you are conservative and misusing logical arguments to rationalize your actual political opinion. It's ignoran…

First off, do not insinuate motivations to my comments by using phrases like "you are conservative", "your actual political opinion" etc. (loaded terms in the US and i am not even American) and go off on tangential "strawman" arguments. Also if you don't (or want to) understand something don't use phrases like "metaargument", "sophistry" etc. since they mean nothing. It is ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst. Finally, do not make inflammatory statements hiding behind anonymity since that is the very definition of a "Troll".

Human Values/Ethics/Morals are the subject pf Philosophy from time immemorial and in the modern world also of Psychology/Sociology/etc. Their manifestation, and variations over time, modulated in a socio-cultural context is what has-been/is-being studied/researched by philosophers/sociologists/ethnographers/anthropologists/etc. For your edification, the following are some introductions which are recommended for study;

1) Ethics - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics

2) Universal Values - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_value

3) Theory of Basic Human Values - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_basic_human_values

4) Moral Foundations Theory - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#580

Post by rightbyte »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #466
rightbyte wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a submissive attitude towards unpleasant machinery. Are you referring to litteral or methaphorical machinery here? Actual machinery can be a pain. Your 'a submissive' attidude is a good wording for the 'are you a fag or what' mindset many seem to have to work conditions that suck. I worked a summer mounting rear axis on trucks, so my experience is kinda limited. But it was really bad and the clock was ticking for e…

you mean rear axles, no? Not rear axis, which isn't a named thing.

Oh ye 'axle' I thought is was the same word as axis.
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