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Panic at the Job Market

matt.sh

571–580 of 1001 posts

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#571
post #167

I enjoyed this, but I can offer an anecdotal correction: this person does not know what the Amazon bar raiser interviews are like (or at least, used to be like 10 years ago). They're not behavioral interviews. They're more like "lateral thinking" interviews, like: here's an abstract problem, what ways can you think of to tackle it? And then drilling into the details to see if you're just making up fluff or you can so…

the same amazon - that can't sync where the video last played ?

up until those same companies start to make userland software that actually works. interviews are or will remain just a hazing ceremony.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#572

The easy answer is stop being such a 'servant' and work on per project basis. I'm yet to understand why people are so prone to being slaves of corporations. It's the most degrading experience with zero motivation on the job. Just retake your dignity.

Apologies for the following assumption: You must be based in Europe.

I assumed that because in certain countries in the EU, such as Germany, Belgium, Poland, Ireland, companies are quite used to working with independent contractors. I am not sure that’s the case in the US.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#573
post #554
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

Conversely, my company, which interviewed me by having me write ‘for’ loops in all 12 or so languages listed on my CV during the technical interview, is a pretty decent place to work. I cannot tell you how bemused I was after leaving that interview. I’d done months of degrading stupid ‘tell us some trivia about JS’ interviews, and here was someone that (apparently) just wanted to judge whether the information on my C…

> Conversely, my company, which interviewed me by having me write ‘for’ loops in all 12 or so languages listed on my CV during the technical interview, is a pretty decent place to work.

This is funny. I’ve interviewed so many candidates who think keyword stuffing their resume has no consequences, but then you get them in the interview and discover they couldn’t actually tell you much about the languages or frameworks they listed other than very high level descriptions.

When I do resume reviews for people I try to push back on some of the keyword stuffing, but there’s a lot of resistance. There’s a popular idea that resumes are just for tricking the ATS and nothing more, but then these people get in front of someone who actually wants to discuss their resume and it gets ugly fast.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#574
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As in, a person who has used and learned a dozen plus languages but only tacitly used C++ suddenly will be a complete invalid when trying to write in C++? I've switched at least 5 languages professionally and used probably 5 more for extended periods of time and wrote a decent chunk of C++ "back in the day". I'd say C++ is the least suitable for "learn on the job" approach out of any language I can think of (I'm lu…

I generally agree with you, but I think it depends on the team. If the team is just "using" C++ but aren't good software developers, then yea, I totally agree that having a non-C++ expert join the team is going to be a rough ride for everyone. But if the team's software architecture and coding practices are solid, which probably means they use a subset of C++'s vast feature set in a very clear way, then one probably…

I think by the time you’ve learned 12 different languages you’ll realize when something is hard enough that you need to take a step back and read some stuff first before diving in.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#575
post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. I’ve done some mentoring of CS grads for the past few years. We some times get people with unreasonable interview demands, like companies asking them to make an entire app or website for the interview process. We advise them to decline the really excessive ones. However, it’s rare to see tha…

4-5 hours? No assessment should be over 1 hour and 3-4 hours of interviews for most jobs is excessive. I’ve trudged through long assessments. I can’t think of a single one where a better thought out 30 minute one wouldn’t better. No. I’ll tell you EXACTLY what is going on. The long interview and assessments are because jobs don’t train anymore and these unpaid or underpaid hours are the initial training. 3 hours of a…

I've been on both sides of plenty of multi hour assessments. Unpaid training is absolutely not the reason. As an employer, I don't want to spend time training anyone unless they're actually going to be hired.

It's really hard to figure out if someone is going to be a good fit for a job, so the idea is to get as many different perspectives as possible. Hence why you often interview with different people on different roles as part of the process

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#576
post #551

I have been trying to hire someone with more than a couple years experience in frontend and event sourcing with any language in the backend for weeks and 90% of the applicants are just people right off a bootcamp where they just do Django. then a couple no-shows and people who essentially add any tech they've heard of in their CV. In the past I've interviewed dozens of people who mention five DBMS in their resume but…

At the risk of minimizing your issue, are you sure you’re paying enough? Mid-level engineers cost ~130-140k (in Houston at least).

A few weeks ago I was talking to a hiring manager who found me on LinkedIn and was saying he had a hard time finding anyone. Turns out he was trying to pay 50-90k for a mid/senior developer who had machine learning and robotics experience. I didn’t take the interview

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#577
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imo, there are two kinds of programmers: people who can write code to build stuff, and people who can write code to build stuff and are also conversationally fluent in the theory behind writing code. The second group is 5x more useful than the first, and coding interviews are testing which group you're in. Often the first group doesn't think the extra skill of fluency is important, which is fine, think what you want,…

I think the best coding interview is to test some fundamental CS knowledge. For example: given a scanner, write a simple calculator that deals with precedence and only needs to support +-*/ It shouldn't take a huge amount of time to get a parser done, with BNF or not.

When starting to type this comment, I was going to write that I could not do it and I think of myself as a decent coder. While typing that, I had an idea and I started a stopwatch...

Made this test set in the first minute: "1 + 1", "1 * 2", "1 + 2 * 2", "1-1", "1/2", "1+2/2" which I think should cover the requirements generally. Then I took 9m58s to come up with 77 super ugly lines that, to my surprise, after fixing that I forgot to cast the inputs to floating points (lines 67 and 76), gave the right answer straight away.

Code and output: https://pastebin.com/C3RVqpjE

The correct answer would probably have imported ast but, while I know of the general existence of such tools, I never needed this in my life. It's not like I work on JSON parsers (a minefield) or wrote my own coding language. An old colleague did the latter for a commercial product by using str.split on operators (yes, strings were a major feature in the language), which went about as well as you expect... I know to stay away from these problems or, if tasked with it, where to look to solve it, but that doesn't mean I can do it in an interview.

While I'm pleasantly surprised to have gotten a crude version working and in a faster time than I expected...

...if you're not hiring specifically for a parsing job, please don't use this as a coding exercise. It could be an interview question if you just want to hear "something something AST, and not by string-splitting on operators when the language has strings with said operators potentially in them". That could demonstrate knowledge sufficient such that the coder would do the right thing if this task were to come up in their job

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#578
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

In my country, last year it was definitely a candidate's market: I had recruiters reaching out all the time and I got the first job I applied for. This month I've been applying for jobs and not getting interviews. From the conversations I've had it seems recruiters want someone who has an exact skill match for the job. They don't care what else you have done or how many years you have under your belt it's gotta be th…

If the internet is to be believed the average software engineer changes jobs every couple of years.

If that's true it makes some sense for a company to want to only hire people whose skills exactly match the specific thing they are hiring them to work on. If they only think the new hire is not going to be around long term why put resources into teaching them new skills?

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#579
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain further? I assumed you were talking about COVID, but the decline in jobs lags a few years behind so I'm not sure I'm tracking your point.

The inflation from the covid money-fountain came back to bite well after the pandemic. Central Bank sets the rates higher to purposefully chill the economy by triggering a recession, or ideally recession-lite. Making people unemployed is a key goal

>Making people unemployed is a key goal

Considering one of the main goals of the central bank is to maximize employment, this perspective might be extending into unfounded conspiracy territory.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#580
post #151
post #86

Hiring people (mostly engineers) has been my full-time job now for about 15 years and I found myself emphatically agreeing with a lot of Matt's criticisms of modern hiring. Most tech interviews are as relevant to job performance as if hiring a baker required interviewing them about how electron orbitals bind worked gluten together then rejecting bakers who don’t immediately draw a valid orbital configuration. Matt's…

except that referral hiring isn't a thing almost anywhere I know because I've referred people I KNOW are great SE's and I'm literally willing to vouch my own employment for, and they still get treated no different to any other candidate

My last place of employment took my referrals and treated them like garbage, including ghosting a former VP. I asked many times why they hadn’t contacted him and they ultimately pinned the blame on their contract recruiter. Also saw multiple engineer referrals get burned by our asinine hiring process. And this was a small startup that was desperate for more people.
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