Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it would take the candidate "spending every waking moment of their lives coding" to have one or two small coding projects after a half decade plus in the field, that's a signal. If you went to college but never made anything, that's a signal. If you didn't go to college, and never made anything, just shut up and make something.
In a half decade plus some people pick up other commitments that are not side projects, like a pet, a child, sports, hiking, etc. At the end of the day, it isn’t really relevant to the employer what is done in spare time off the job when they get hired, so it’s not like I should privilege their spare time projects over people who don’t do that, particularly if people don’t want to code off the clock. There are plenty…
Coding interviews are stupid (ish)
571–580 of 679 posts
Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)
#572Earlier quoted context omitted.
I totally understand your point of view, but looking at it from the other side it’s not as simple. We had candidates with 10+ years of experience in their resume, talking to them it seemed they know what they’re doing, they showed some of the code they’ve supposedly written. Then they got hired and it turned out they can’t code - their PRs are below junior level, constant bugs, communication is abysmal, they overshoo…
We recently interviewed a candidate, with 7 years of experience at a FAANG company, fail a really basic coding interview and we don't even make you write code. I have no idea what these people expect. We ask coding questions, we have basic programming skills as a requirement, what do they think will happen if they get the job? Do they expect to just magically learn the required skills or hope that nobody will notice…
Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)
#573Earlier quoted context omitted.
In a half decade plus some people pick up other commitments that are not side projects, like a pet, a child, sports, hiking, etc. At the end of the day, it isn’t really relevant to the employer what is done in spare time off the job when they get hired, so it’s not like I should privilege their spare time projects over people who don’t do that, particularly if people don’t want to code off the clock. There are plenty…
In the time you took writing this comment you could've gotten the repo created and the title and description filled out. Writing text in a public readme.md would serve you better than sending it to me.
Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)
#574Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's the typical case for Bay Area-HQ tech companies , at essentially all levels for Tier-1 companies, higher levels at Tier-2/3 companies, and specialist roles beyond that. "software engineering" doesn't print money any more than being "in finance" does, you'll make more or less depending on what company you do it for.
> It's the typical case for Bay Area-HQ tech companies, at essentially all levels for Tier-1 companies, higher levels at Tier-2/3 companies What are the tiers? It's close to typical for a Bay Area Google L5 according to levels.fyi.
Google would be a tier1-2, Uber/Lyft/Netflix would be tier 1, Adobe would be tier 2-3, etc.
Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)
#575Earlier quoted context omitted.
in the sfba, levels.fyi shows it roughly at 85%-ile, not everyone - but hardly extreme outlier
I wonder what it is after accounting for self reporting bias.
Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)
#576Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're completely ignoring the reality of frauds. Jeff Atwood was writing about this over a decade ago with "FizzBuzz". There are many people who spend more effort creating the illusion of competence on paper and on the job, getting harder to detect the higher they go. We as a profession (software engineers) have continually resisted broad unified certification like other engineers which could be a replacemen…
>even then it sometimes fails How can a code interview fail? Hidden earpiece?
Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)
#577My attitude towards code interviews is to politely decline them and encourage people best of luck hiring a junior developer; because that's obviously what they are looking for. I'm closing in on 50, so not that junior anymore. If anyone has any doubts about my coding abilities after reading my CV, browsing my Github repos, and talking to me, then it's not going to work and we can both save ourselves some time. I've s…
I totally understand your point of view, but looking at it from the other side it’s not as simple. We had candidates with 10+ years of experience in their resume, talking to them it seemed they know what they’re doing, they showed some of the code they’ve supposedly written. Then they got hired and it turned out they can’t code - their PRs are below junior level, constant bugs, communication is abysmal, they overshoo…
Although i see it as a way for the candidate and i to talk about code in general, and assess his level. No as a simple barrier.
i hired a candidate that completely failed a code interview because he was super nervous, but just talking about the problem made me quite sure he was actually good.
Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)
#578My takeaway is that if the goal of the coding interview is to “identify people who can code”, then this approach has high precision and poor recall.
In other words, most of the people who pass the interview actually can code (at a basic level—I’m not talking about high-level system design skills here). Very few people slip through this interview who cannot code. However, because of the poor recall, there are many people who actually code very well that the interview misses (a fact widely derided on here).
From the perspective of a big tech company, this situation is perfectly fine. There are so many candidates interviewing for any given role that accidentally rejecting a few exceptional candidates is quite an acceptable trade-off in order to prevent a bad hire. Most of the people who cannot code and are aware of their inability to code, yet still knowingly apply for a position that requires the ability to code tend to be BSer types that attempt to make their way into management positions as quickly as possible (and there are many of these people targeting big tech companies). It’s not that their inability to code hurts the company—it’s that they would prefer not to code at all and go straight to the politicking. The coding interview is simply a nuisance obstacle in the way of this objective. These types will often state that they refuse to interview at any company that requires a coding interview, though I admit there are still many BSers who are skilled enough to pick up some coding ability for just long enough to pass the interview.
At a small tech company or at a company that’s not a “brand name”, this approach obviously doesn’t work as well, because these companies don’t have nearly the onslaught of BSers applying to their open SWE positions. In this case, it might make sense to forgo the coding interview in favor of other approaches.
I like the coding interview because despite its flaws, it actually assesses some technical ability, even if it does so with low recall. This is very much unlike the behavioral interviews, which I think are mostly nonsense and are prime opportunities for BSers or mercenaries to slip into a company. In my experience, the behavioral interviews tend to disproportionally filter out people from unusual or underrepresented backgrounds that aren’t the right “cultural fit”. The language and terminology used in the interview, the conversational style and mannerisms, and the topics discussed all typically provide much more signal into the candidate’s position in the class hierarchy than how that person would do at the job. People like to think they can assess someone well by having a brief 1 hour conversation with them, but I just haven’t found that to be the case, because there are too many perverse incentives and biases involved.
Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)
#579My attitude towards code interviews is to politely decline them and encourage people best of luck hiring a junior developer; because that's obviously what they are looking for. I'm closing in on 50, so not that junior anymore. If anyone has any doubts about my coding abilities after reading my CV, browsing my Github repos, and talking to me, then it's not going to work and we can both save ourselves some time. I've s…
Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)
#580Use coding interviews to tell corporations that the Queer Autonomous Qommunist Revolution (QAQR) is coming for them.
The mascot of QAQR is a rubber ducky that we use to question the need for employment and bosses. It seizes all corporate source codes, and turns them into Open Source. It strikes fear and rebellion.
Use coding interviews to spread QAQR propaganda and memes! This is very human!