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Things are about to get worse for generative AI

garymarcus.substack.com

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Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#571

Post by shkkmo »

sampo wrote: post #522
niemandhier wrote: post #265

Should not be a problem in the EU. Article 3 and 4 of the „ Copyright in the Digital Single Market“ Directive already regulate this. Summary by Wolters Kluwer: […] Everyone else (including commercial ML developers) can only use works that are lawfully accessible and where the rightholders have not explicitly reserved use for text and data mining purposes. AFAIK they are discussing something like a robot.txt to flag s…

> Summary by Wolters Kluwer: […] Everyone else (including commercial ML developers) can only use That is a weird (wishful?) interpretation. Doesn't article 4 give the exception to everybody for the purposes of text and data mining, including commercial ML developers? https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2019/790/oj

Seems like an accurate interpretation to me given that article 4 includes:

> The exception or limitation provided for in paragraph 1 shall apply on condition that the use of works and other subject matter referred to in that paragraph has not been expressly reserved by their rightholders in an appropriate manner, such as machine-readable means in the case of content made publicly available online.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#573

Post by yokem55 »

Hugsun wrote: post #47

There are good arguments for the copyright infringement belonging to the user, not the model maker, in this thread. One issue with that is that there is not a reliable way to determine if copyright is being infringed. Even if models could be used responsibly, there might not be a reasonable expectation that most people will. If infringement is so easy and avoiding it relatively hard. I'm not sure what legal prescript…

Bit torrent clients are almost exclusively used for copyright infringement. Yet they are perfectly legal to develop and distribute. On the flip side, operating a company premised around easy copyright infringement was ruled to be illegal (Napster).

Where we might end up is in a situation where it is legal to train a model. Legal to produce software for using the model to generate content. Legal to distribute all of the above. But offering a standing service that does the above and is capable of creating infringing work is illegal. Great news for llama hobbyists. Bad news for ChatGPT.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#574

Post by shkkmo »

chubot wrote: post #529
Havoc wrote: post #55

To me that’s the wrong question. Everyone knew it was trained on copyrighted material and capable of eerily similar outputs. But it’s already done. At scale. Large corps committing fully. There is no chance of that toothpaste going back in the tube. It’s a bit like when big tech built on aggressive user data harvesting. Whether it’s right, ethical or even legal is academic at this stage. They just did it - effectivel…

This comment is ignorant of history It happened with Napster, then Apple Music, now streaming services There is no widespread file sharing in the general public, instead we have devices that we don’t own, and streaming subscriptions Apple didn’t just copy all the music onto iPods and sell it — it took them a decade of deal making and lots of money to acquire the rights to the content I’m not saying what’s right or wr…

> Apple didn’t just copy all the music onto iPods and sell it — it took them a decade of deal making and lots of money to acquire the rights to the content

I recaly iPod being a hard drive that I could connect to a computer and just copy music directly to.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#575

Post by karmakaze »

The real 'problem' is how do we navigate the present and near future where much more than physical labor is being automated? This is where we need sustainable solutions. The rough road on the way should also be smoothed out so as not to disrupt so many lives, but it's good to keep a perspective what and why we're doing these things.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#577

Post by discreteevent »

falcor84 wrote: post #434
ausbah wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this comment has already aged poorly because cities are starting to push airbnbs out and taxi usage is at least somewhat up

> taxi usage is at least somewhat up When's the last time you phoned an operator to book a taxi? If taxis are doing better, it's only because they learned from Uber (and the likes) what the job-to-be-done actually is.

Mytaxi (freenow) was founded the same year as Uber.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#578

Post by regularfry »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #311

I am beginning to think that in these discussions these models are functioning more like an obscuring factor than anything else and the discussion is getting bogged down in that, and not the crux of the argument. They’re giving people plausible deniability in the “chain of responsibility”, and I think if we took away “LLM” and replaced it with “fairground sideshow magic box” the argument that LLM’s are somehow specia…

I completely agree.

Betamax says that a technology which has significant non-infringing uses is not inherently infringing.

We've already got precedent saying that AI generated works don't accrue copyright protection, and by the same argument the act of generation by the AI expresses no intent, so infringement or otherwise must be down to the human using the output because the black box itself has no agency.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#579

Post by RecycledEle »

If we get rid of unconstitutional copyrights in the US, this ges away.

Recall that according to the US Constitution, copyright can only be on on "science and the useful arts."

Alternately, we could restore a reasonable limit to the duration of copyrights, like 14 years.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#580

Post by RecycledEle »

jlnthws wrote: post #576

We could get inspiration from the case of the record industry against Napster, or cabs VS Uber. Both parties are somehow abusing their position, but the world is moving on. Rent seeking is probably not an absolute source of wealth after all.

Rent seeking should be a capital crime.
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