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Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#571

Post by kibwen »

oneplane wrote: post #516
toastercat wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

youtube-dl, NewPipe, and uBlock Origin exist solely for the purpose of empowering the individual, yet they are constantly attacked on HN as being tools used unfairly to harm Google's profitability. Open-source projects like Matrix, PeerTube, Mastodon, are built to be free and open-source for the benefit of end-users and lack of vendor lockin. Yet each is derided on HackerNews for not being enough like their corporate…

The projects can be appreciated while also acknowledging that advertisements are part of the value exchange. There's nothing wrong with knowing that if your options are to either watch ads or pay for a service, and you privateer the service instead, that that is not as reasonable as it seems to some people. Note: this is very different from "but I want to block all ads", that's not what I'm writing here and also not…

> The projects can be appreciated while also acknowledging that advertisements are part of the value exchange.

No, this is preposterous and I will continue to refute this silly idea every time it shows up here. It is not stealing from radio stations to change the station when ads come on. It is not stealing from TV channels to go get a drink when ads come on. There is no moral compunction to watch ads, from anyone, anywhere. Stop trying to normalize advertising, which is to say, stop trying to normalize the enshittification of the human mind.

Meanwhile, a web browser is a user agent running on my machine. Youtube's content is a guest on my hardware. Once it's on my machine, I have the moral right to do whatever I please with it. If Google doesn't want to serve it to me, then it has the right to prevent me from accessing their server, such as in exchange for payment. But again, advertising is not payment, it's just corporate-sanctioned, socially-acceptable brainwashing.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#572

Post by smeej »

lolinder wrote: post #512
Klonoar wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is the hacker spirit here? The site is called "Hacker News" but it's predominantly existed over the years as a funnel for the business-centric Valley industry. Which is to say that I think you're trying to apply one specific definition of "hacker" when it doesn't really work that way.

There's that, but I'm not an SV person and my reaction was still "well, duh!". An app like Beeper Mini wants to be something like NewPipe for YouTube: installable only if you know how to download F-Droid, maintained by a community of fans, used only by people who understand that Google can break it at any time and it might take days to weeks for it to recover. What Beeper did instead was build a startup and sell subs…

Know how to download F-droid? As in, "Google F-droid, click link to f-droid.org, click 'Download F-droid'"?

I guess I can only speak for myself, but I'm pretty alright with people building apps with the expectation that would-be users will need to know how to install apps.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#573

Post by Nullabillity »

lolinder wrote: post #512
Klonoar wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is the hacker spirit here? The site is called "Hacker News" but it's predominantly existed over the years as a funnel for the business-centric Valley industry. Which is to say that I think you're trying to apply one specific definition of "hacker" when it doesn't really work that way.

There's that, but I'm not an SV person and my reaction was still "well, duh!". An app like Beeper Mini wants to be something like NewPipe for YouTube: installable only if you know how to download F-Droid, maintained by a community of fans, used only by people who understand that Google can break it at any time and it might take days to weeks for it to recover. What Beeper did instead was build a startup and sell subs…

Everyone deserves a path around vendor bullshit, not just "true hackers".

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#574

Post by rtkwe »

prmoustache wrote: post #423
haswell wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An android user in an otherwise iMessage only group chat tends to mess things up. Those Apple users tend to get frustrated by it and group chat exclusion is a real thing. It’s less about a specific feature set and more about inclusion and acceptance from/by peers. This is especially prevalent among the younger crowd. Think high school group dynamics playing out with phones. And then on top of that, photos/videos are…

Are these iMessage group chat really a thing? In my part of the world Whatsapp is the defacto standard for group chat and even for things like scheduling anpointment to a doctor/dentist/hairdresser. And that is because it is available on android, apple devices and even those cheap kaios halfsmartphones.

The US is odd that way that unified chat apps haven't made as much of a headway. iMessage way more dominant in the US and is the leader.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#575

Post by lolinder »

smeej wrote: post #572
lolinder wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's that, but I'm not an SV person and my reaction was still "well, duh!". An app like Beeper Mini wants to be something like NewPipe for YouTube: installable only if you know how to download F-Droid, maintained by a community of fans, used only by people who understand that Google can break it at any time and it might take days to weeks for it to recover. What Beeper did instead was build a startup and sell subs…

Know how to download F-droid? As in, "Google F-droid, click link to f-droid.org, click 'Download F-droid'"? I guess I can only speak for myself, but I'm pretty alright with people building apps with the expectation that would-be users will need to know how to install apps.

I didn't say it was a high bar, but it's enough of a barrier to drive off most of the entitled complaints when Google periodically breaks the app.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#577

Post by JeremyNT »

HKH2 wrote: post #403
increscent wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently switched from Android to iOS just for iMessage. SMS is quite unreliable even in 2023. SMS messages don't have the same delivery guarantees as IP-based messaging services. And often I have internet access, but spotty cellular service. The thing that pushed me over the edge was that my carrier happened to block all my SMS for a day. I only found out about it later in the day, after I had missed many (unrecov…

I don't get why Americans cling so dearly to SMS.

This thread basically sums it up:

* Apple is really popular in the US

* Apple users tend to rely heavily on Apple's default applications

* Apple's messaging app is the default, and works fine with other Apple devices, but sends shitty SMS or MMS to non-Apple devices

SMS would disappear tomorrow if Apple adopts RCS.

And if they allowed iMessage clients on other platforms, they could corner the entire messaging market.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#578

Post by Nullabillity »

paulmd wrote: post #437
crazygringo wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is the hacker spirit here? The hacker spirit is the fun of reverse engineering. The hacker spirit is about personal use. It's not expecting to be able to turn it into a business , or a popular app, that wouldn't quickly be shut down. That's just common sense. > Myself for example owns a Macbook, but an Android phone. Am I not allowed to use iMessage? I paid the toll. Of course you can. It's sitting there on y…

It’s also at severe risk of ruining the fun for numerous other hacker-spirit communities like hackintosh or opencore. Apple can come down on this in ways that potentially make it much more difficult for hackintosh to operate, or for people to update their legitimate apple systems after the end of official support. Which was pointed out in those threads too. See also geohot taking some other PS3 exploits that were alr…

The only people ruining anything for anyone in your examples are Apple and Sony.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#579

Post by turquoisevar »

trynumber9 wrote: post #47

The EU should, like they did years ago with PC operating systems, mandate a default browser selection screen. And a default messenger selection screen. And a default app store selection screen. Not that we'd get it in the US but it would help reduce Apple/Google market capture efforts.

No, thank you.

When the EU forced that implementation, it was already behind the ball.

It all but ensured Chrome’s dominance by killing Firefox’s momentum and proved unsuccessful, which is why the browser selection screen got killed.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#580

Post by garysahota93 »

What if they create a version of Beeper Mini that spoofs an apple device you own? For example: I don't want to own an iPhone, but I do have a MacBook. So rather than use a randomly generated device that tricks Apple's servers to allow me to connect, I can just use a device a legitimately own (and just trick apple to think my phone is my laptop).

I know this won't work for everyone (especially folks that don't have an Apple device). But this might be better than losing the app all together ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(PS - I don't know much about how Beeper Mini's reverse engineering worked. Just going off what I believe I understood)

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