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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

artemis.sh

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#571

Post by agloe_dreams »

Podgajski wrote: post #476
Pannoniae wrote: post #10

I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone. I've recently switched to using KDE with the Oxygen theme and it's a joy to use without any eye strain. These scrollbars are absolutely pathetic, with no room for customisation. (good luck theming a locked-down…

If we are talking UI we need to talk about Apple. The first thin I do on MacOS is turn on the scroll bars. Yes, MacOS Has them set as "Only Show When Scrolling" by default, which is probably the most ridiculous setting.

I can, 100% say that I haven't used a scroll bar on the web in years. I do find the hidden scroll more aesthetically pleasing.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#572

Post by kps »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #410
Tempest1981 wrote: post #130

Can we talk about window borders? I have multiple overlapping VS Code windows open, all with black backgrounds and black borders. No drop shadows. It's impossible to see where one windows frame/border is, sitting on top of another. This should be an OS thing, but apparently it's an app thing. And VS Code "withdrew" support for configuring borders: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/160159

More on borders (and title bars) here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37865824 My theory is that designers target users viewing 1 full-screen window at a time. Their model user never moves or resizes a window, or opens more than 3 tabs/documents a day, as they sit at their 13" laptop in an ideally-lit room with no reflections.

Then you get programs having splits or panels or whatever they're called for multiple documents, which is just an internal window manager that's not as good as my regular window manager.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#573

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

chankstein38 wrote: post #563
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just keep all my applications full screen and use multiple workspaces I also like this setup, but do you have a workaround for the godawful animation that MacOS uses when switching apps? I can disable the panning effect, but not the fading one.

wait how do you disable the panning effect? I hate that. I just want the workspace to switch I don't need the stupid visuals that just slow everything down.

System Settings > Accessibility > Display > Reduce motion

Still far from perfect, but better.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#574

Post by agloe_dreams »

jfim wrote: post #33
Pannoniae wrote: post #10

I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone. I've recently switched to using KDE with the Oxygen theme and it's a joy to use without any eye strain. These scrollbars are absolutely pathetic, with no room for customisation. (good luck theming a locked-down…

> I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. We've hit peak usability about twenty years ago, in the Windows 2000 era. The screenshot in the article is actually from about that era, it's one of the early 10.x (10.3 I believe) OS X releases.

Today in HN: A billion armchair rants about Windows 2000 being the best UI forgetting just how much it actually sucked at usability or accessibility features.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#575

Post by lnxg33k1 »

I think too many people with OCD are getting into tech, I’d have nothing against them if they realised they have an issue and would not destroy everything around them, like remove bad looking but essential for usability elements or having to align vertically everything making it a challenge to understand what line is what, that said, I curse you guys, unless you get help or get out of usability/ coding

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#576

Post by Izkata »

Hizonner wrote: post #93
rubyfan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When speaking to diverse stakeholders I will not use acronyms, slang, colloquialism, or jargon because I want to be accessible.

"Stakeholder" is jargon.

Like Buffy the Vampire Slayer!

(Now just wait for that to pop into your head at the next work meeting)

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#578

Post by pjettter »

Pannoniae wrote: post #10

I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone. I've recently switched to using KDE with the Oxygen theme and it's a joy to use without any eye strain. These scrollbars are absolutely pathetic, with no room for customisation. (good luck theming a locked-down…

I often wish we had more analog control in the digital world. I wish there were turn knobs instead up/down buttons with 10 steps (where it is easy to accidentally leave a menu... When trying to get back to where you were, you are suddenly adjusting something else entirely). Manual control with digital devices has become too digital and too cumbersome.

It used to be easy to adjust contrast and brightness on a display, volume on an amplifiee, an analog TV, a termostat, a car radio, etc.

I realize that we are not really on course (yet?) for reintroducing a lot of analog controls, but in the end, our world is analog. Input is analog via speech, muscle motion, etc. Output is analog, via light and other vibrations that reach our senses. Why isn't control more analog? It's probably a cost thing.

I would totally buy a display or a laptop with analog controls. I don't even care if the turn dial actually has 16M steps, so long as the response is pretty much immediate and feels like a real potentiometer. It should feel like direct manipulation and like you're in control, instead of these digital roundabout abominations.

As to the subject, I imagine having some knobs that I can adjust under different circumstances to quickly vary intensity or cycle through alternatives in order to make things more readable or audible.

90% Of what we do is in the browser today. Browsers could have an "accessibility" API such that turn knobs (bluetooth? whatever) could be used for control. Like scroll wheels but on steroids?

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#579

Post by ckyngcybra »

beowulfey wrote: post #489
ckyngcybra wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Feel free to enlighten all of us, instead of using ad hominem on this particular comment. I, a lowly uninformed user, would love to know what UX/UI is versus what it pretends to be, so that I might understand the decisions being made in Windows 11.

I would love to enlighten you further but of course my time costs money.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#580

Post by kps »

Izkata wrote: post #576
Hizonner wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Stakeholder" is jargon.

Like Buffy the Vampire Slayer! (Now just wait for that to pop into your head at the next work meeting)

Whenever I hear ‘stakeholder’ I assume someone is about to be stabbed through the heart. I've never been wrong.
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