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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

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Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#571

Post by kevincox »

jboydyhacker wrote: post #514

Why not a similarly brave stance in China? In China Apple claims it "obeys all local laws" except in the UK it wants to be courageous? I guess it's a brave state unless the $$$ are good.

Apple isn't foolish enough to believe that China will fold, it is obvious that if Apple refuses and iPhone will be banned.

However there is a great chance that if they threaten to pull out of the UK that the law won't pass. Even if it does it is good marketing. Who knows what will actually happen if the law comes into effect. The UK market definitely isn't small, for all we know they may back down. Or maybe their reputation is more valuable.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#572

Post by cmiles74 »

jboydyhacker wrote: post #514

Why not a similarly brave stance in China? In China Apple claims it "obeys all local laws" except in the UK it wants to be courageous? I guess it's a brave state unless the $$$ are good.

Apple claims that messages sent with their Messages application are end-to-end encrypted, even in China, and that they have made no concessions to government of China.

But... Everyone in China has their iCloud backups stored in China and Apple holds the keys to these backups. While Apple cannot read E2E encrypted Messages content, they do upload an unencrypted (but encrypted with keys they control) backup of all of the phones Messages data.

It seems likely China can ask Apple for a backup of a citizen's phone and Apple will comply with that request. Or they have access to these data centers.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/25/apple-moves-icloud-encrypt...

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#573

Post by vidarh »

RektBoy wrote: post #342
mihaaly wrote: post #123

I wonder why the UK legislators not preparing a new regulation mandating every keys to every door and safe having a bypass mechanism for government officials. Behind every door and every locked place there could be child pornography and illicit materials hidden!! Every house, every hotel safe are suspects! Criminal oversight, criminal oversight! (and if they think their reasoning for backdoors into online chat and co…

[flagged]

At least in England and Wales, unreasonable force can be used in self defense (Crime and Courts Act 2013) as long as it is not grossly disproportionate, and people are regularly let off for that, so you're wildly off base.

This includes cases where people have killed unarmed intruders.

What will typically get people in trouble is not self defense, but cases where the victim continues after an attacker is no longer a threat (is subdued or fleeing).

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#574

Post by crackercrews »

jen20 wrote: post #558
crackercrews wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this a self-own?

Because it makes people look like pathetic muppets. If you mean "Fuck Joe Biden", say "Fuck Joe Biden", don't clutch your damn pearls about it.

Interesting take. I understood conservatives to use it because it is also taking a shot at the so-called MSM, who dubiously created the phrase. I never knew people though conservatives were being muppets by using it.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#575

Post by throw0101b »

hot_gril wrote: post #404
wonderwonder wrote: post #78

This is a scam by the UK government, they don't care about child abuse, they are going to look into all sorts of communications to leverage people. If they cared about child abuse they would have shut down the open child prostitution rings running rampant. They openly let it continue because they are afraid of being branded racist since the gangs running them are minorities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_ch…

"Think of the children" is always the reason rights (good or bad) get taken away.

For several decades now:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#576

Post by smoldesu »

epcoa wrote: post #556
smoldesu wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On what specifically? For starters, PRISM and XKeyscore. Both are damning indictments of the state of surveillance a decade ago , and are so damaging that pretty much every FAANG company denies knowledge of their existence. PRISM was about the outreach the US government has with domestic companies, and XKeyscore showed just how far those connections could be abused. Simply the fact that these leaked documents exist…

> For starters, PRISM and XKeyscore. Both are damning indictments of the state of surveillance a decade ago, and are so damaging that pretty much every FAANG company denies knowledge of their existence. Where's this denial by Apple? Or is your argument that because Apple doesn't admit colluding with the NSA they must be doing it. Well that is not falsifiable and what evidence are you speaking to of Apple specifically…

> Where's this denial by Apple?

https://www.apple.com/apples-commitment-to-customer-privacy/

> Well that is not falsifiable and what evidence are you speaking to of Apple specifically colluding with the NSA.

Wow. What a conspicuous coincidence that all of the exonerating evidence is behind closed-doors and marked "trust us"!

> That would still not address the hardware issue.

Is there a hardware issue?

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#577

Post by throwingtoofar »

First they came for protests, now they want to tackle encryption.

I don't think they like the ability of people to share unofficial information and organize themselves in huge numbers.[0]

People were sharing anti-propaganda propaganda stickers on telegram too.[1] (2:40 the bus is covered in them, also saw a vid where an entire police car was covered in them.)

[0]. https://onevsp.com/watch/gqymHfesRd5sWJj

[1]. https://onevsp.com/watch/3skDbBtB8sGwboa

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#579

Post by jonhohle »

dralley wrote: post #491
vbo wrote: post #419

I feel we've been collectively losing the battle to keep our conversations private. The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority, while the majority believes they had no privacy to begin with and governments can read your messages at a whim. And perhaps that's true to some extent. But since most people believe the battle is lost, moreso that this has always been the status quo, then any batt…

>I feel we've been collectively losing the battle to keep our conversations private. A big part of the issue is that the nature of the conversations has changed. Mail and Telephones were never at any point perfectly private. The idea of having complete privacy in such conversations is actually rather new. The difference is that those communication mediums now represent nearly all communication, rather than a small fr…

Great! Long distance communication has finally caught up with fundamental rights!

Had those rights been respected all along instead of exploited by perverted, power-obsessed authorities because of how easy it was, it wouldn’t be such a shock to lose the ability again. At least in the US where a right to privacy is a constitutional guarantee, I would hope that Apple and others would defiantly continue to offer encrypted services despite government threats. It would seem like the Human Rights Act guarantees the same right, though I don’t know if it has any higher precedence than any other act parliament.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#580

Post by sneak »

obituary_latte wrote: post #569
sneak wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Headline: Exclusive: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained - sources https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv... Even with the new iCloud e2ee, which is not on by default, if you enable it, Apple and FBI/DHS/et al can still read all your messages (unless each and everyone you iMessage with also enables it), because iCloud still escrows iMessage sync keys in non-e2ee iCloud…

Thanks for the reply. So am I misunderstanding their data security overview page?[0] >For additional privacy and security, 14 data categories — including Health and passwords in iCloud Keychain — are end-to-end encrypted. Apple doesn't have the encryption keys for these categories, and we can't help you recover this data if you lose access to your account. The table below includes a list of data categories that are a…

iCloud Backups are enabled by default, and the Messages in iCloud key is in the non-e2ee iCloud Backup.

That means the iMessages being synced are encrypted to an endpoint key which is held by both the endpoint and the middle transit service (iCloud/iCloud Backup). That's end-to-middle-and-end encrypted, i.e. not end to end encrypted.

Even if you turn on iCloud Backup e2ee (it's an option now) then your iMessages to everyone who hasn't (99.9%+ of people) aren't e2ee because the other end of the conversation is backing up their endpoint sync key.

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