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Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

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Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#571

Post by jorvi »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #135
GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lenders that are taking on too much risk The lenders are taking no risks since these loans cannot be discharged through bankruptcy. There are also very large late fees and penalties that can triple (or more) the amount owed.

Now I read that Wall Street is creating CDO's based on these loans, like they (continue to) do on mortgages. Some people die "early" without paying back these loans, and sometimes, they will owe more than they took out. Given the mounting problems with the numbers here, it seems a whole generation of people in the middle of this bubble are going to go to the grave while still owing on these loans. What happens to the…

Not that it touches on your other points but

> Two of three have gone to public schools so far, and we've paid through the nose for it. We are pushing our third towards some sort of trade school.

Jesus Christ. You're gonna give child one and two full opportunity to realize whatever potential they have, but steer child three?

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#572

Post by gameman144 »

jedberg wrote: post #529
gameman144 wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loan companies might not want to do that, but it's absolutely part of the due diligence they have to do. If I borrow a few hundred thousand for a home, the loan company does a deep dive to ensure that my home is a sensible buy (e.g. appraisal) and that I'm in a position to pay back the loan (e.g. credit check, historical performance). It's absolutely wild that we'd absolve loan companies from this due diligence for y…

> It's absolutely wild that we'd absolve loan companies from this due diligence for young adults with less credit history and no ability to default on the loans. We haven't absolved them per se. At first they tried to get the data and make smart decisions, but there just wasn't enough data for them to make good decisions, so they denied everyone. That's why the government got into the business of backing the loans in…

I think we might have different fundamental viewpoints here, and that's okay.

In my view, current government policy is actively enabling people to dig themselves into holes of debt which they'll never be able to get out from.

It's great that people are choosing to study art, music, and philosophy. I personally have a degree in music, and it's one of the great joys of my life! Whether the government should loan me an absurd amount of money strictly for those pursuits, though, is a different question. There's great value in history, but I think most people would hardly endorse a government policy of loaning anyone a few hundred thousand dollars in living expenses to go to their public library and read about the Civil War for a few years.

Also, it's completely feasibly to encourage a broad range of studies while also conferring a degree in an employable field. This is the model of liberal arts schools: you study art, music, philosophy, literature, etc. but you can leave the school with a degree in an employable field.

As far as I understand it, your belief is that without the government lending people money with minimal constraints, fields that are less employable would go away almost entirely. I don't agree that this would be the case, but if that's where you're coming from I think that's a reasonable enough disagreement that we can land on.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#574

Post by sudobash1 »

leesalminen wrote: post #553
sudobash1 wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There goes philosophy, music, and many other liberal arts degrees.

There would just be fewer students in this major, they wouldn’t disappear entirely.

Sorry, my comment was more snark than content. If tuition was limited to student income the universities would be incentivized to cut departments that don't produce high-income graduates.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#575

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

taeric wrote: post #24
eschulz wrote: post #10

Makes sense when you have student loans backed by the federal government. If an 18 year old with no money and no credit history gets accepted into a qualifying university, she will be able to receive a loan since the bank knows that the government will protect their investment if she fails to pay them back. So now young people have this easy access to credit, and universities can greatly increase tuition and fees wit…

Worse than just "backed by the federal government," the loans are basically protected by the government. Being one of the small list of things you can't bankrupt out of, the risk in giving out the loans has been fully pulled from the lenders. It is frustrating to hear the discourse over the inappropriate students that are taking on too much debt, all the while ignoring the lenders that are taking on too much risk. At…

It's also frustrating to see politicians trumpeting efforts to help Americans pay rip-offs like health insurance and tuition, instead of putting a stop to the rip-offs themselves. It's hugely wrong-headed and makes the problem worse.

I went to a major private university, and several years after I graduated they raised the tuition 24% in one shot. When asked why, they basically answered, "Everyone else did it."

It's time to revoke universities' tax exemptions when they pull shit like this, or are rolling in massive endowments, windfalls from sports programs, whatever. The regression of education in the USA at all levels marks the continuing decline of our society. We've gone back to book-burning in some areas. Now college is unreachable or a crushing burden. WTF.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#576

Post by fleshdaddy »

sudobash1 wrote: post #551
hoosieree wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a tuition capped at the median salaries of its graduates?

There goes philosophy, music, and many other liberal arts degrees.

Yeah if we did that I think we’d need to build some systems for these things. We need artists and writers and what not and precluding anyone who can’t afford it would probably suck for society. We’d need some good scholarship type programs to help out there. Honestly we could probably use those now, I don’t know how realistic a lot of these things are under our current system.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#577

Post by 999900000999 »

phillipcarter wrote: post #121

Surprised that nobody here mentioned community colleges yet. Not a silver bullet, but the total cost of someone commuting to a community college from home is an order of magnitude cheaper than going to college. In many cases, CCs have explicit transfer programs, and the chances of transferring to a decent university after year two are pretty high.

CCs are perfect for students who might not know if they need to go to college or not. Better to only waste a few hundred dollars to realize college isn't for you. I had an amazing time at Community College, and even though I took off time to work I ultimately did get a 4 year degree for a pretty low price .

The biggest issue in my opinion would be all of the people who have tons of student loan debt but didn't exactly graduate. You have the worst of both worlds

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#578

Post by missedthecue »

imtringued wrote: post #489
lr1970 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Worse than just "backed by the federal government," the loans are basically protected by the government. It is really strange that government does not constrain tuitions of the colleges participating in the loan program. Currently, Universities have no incentives to control costs in any way.

Literally all they have to do is limit the maximum loan size. Max $50k per year. Anything beyond that is not subsidized or requires proof of academic performance or ability to repay.

I thought that there was a cap on federal student loans. Isn't it like $6k a year?

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#579

Post by missedthecue »

pixelatedindex wrote: post #213
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I read that Wall Street is creating CDO's based on these loans, like they (continue to) do on mortgages. Some people die "early" without paying back these loans, and sometimes, they will owe more than they took out. Given the mounting problems with the numbers here, it seems a whole generation of people in the middle of this bubble are going to go to the grave while still owing on these loans. What happens to the…

I’m a newbie, what’s a CDO?

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