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If we lose the Internet Archive, we’re screwed

sbstatesman.com

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Re: If we lose the Internet Archive, we’re screwed

#571

Post by getwiththeprog »

Sakos wrote: post #457
GenericDev wrote: post #308

I'm so sick of modern businesses and their vampire approach on creativity and intelligent property. I see a lot of comments in this thread with what about-isms or "I don't care, we wouldn't miss anything", but these people are short-sighted. And to be honest the hacker news community is frequently the community I loathe to engage in these topics with. Because they are always looking forward with very little respect f…

> I see a lot of comments in this thread with what about-isms or "I don't care, we wouldn't miss anything", but these people are short-sighted. And to be honest the hacker news community is frequently the community I loathe to engage in these topics with. Because they are always looking forward with very little respect for the past as well as very little respect for domains outside of technology. There is a severe la…

I find this a very diverse space with many points of view, many which I do not agree with, and also a place I find people who are rational, cultured and thoughtful. It's not a full discussion without disagreements.

Re: If we lose the Internet Archive, we’re screwed

#572

Post by getwiththeprog »

luckylion wrote: post #566
627467 wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a vacuous argument: it's very obvious that any domain hosting such content for free incurs in costs of hosting and handling legal threats for doing so. So any income received would be another excuse for legal threats. On the other hand: why are these public goods services still hosted in infra/protocols exposed to western/us legal arm?

> On the other hand: why are these public goods services still hosted in infra/protocols exposed to western/us legal arm? Because you can't host them on thoughts and wishes alone. The capitalist system with its legal constraints is what created it, funded it and runs it. And yes, hosting incurs costs, but hosting copies of content isn't "retelling" or "remixing", it's copying. And since we want cultural output, we're…

A lot of the internet was created at public universities with public money for public benefit. A lot of the best of the internet is hosted on and by community groups, with various kinds of funding.

Re: If we lose the Internet Archive, we’re screwed

#574

Post by Alifatisk »

k__ wrote: post #299
Alifatisk wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Filecoin & siaskynet have not been reliabile to me

How come?

When I visited the file I had uploaded a week later or month, the url was not accessible anymore. Especially with Skynet.

Re: If we lose the Internet Archive, we’re screwed

#576

Post by hirako2000 »

lkbm wrote: post #34
hirako2000 wrote: post #8

ipfs?

ipfs might be a hosting solution, but that's a small part of the challenge. You also have to source the data. I recently used some online periodical archive access from my local library to find sources about 1940s musicians protesting recorded music...couldn't find anything. Then I tried IA, and boom, they've got it[0] — someone had to source and scan all these. I recently wanted to revisit some 1980s-era computer ga…

I agree the sourcing isn't something ipfs is magically solving. It is specifically to reduce the weakness of more centralised data store/serving which are easier targets.

Even in term of resilience ipfs isn't bullet proof. Decentralising helps. Pinning needs to exist somewhere as a hard rive and a network connection, ideally with multiple replication, and held with serving as such for extended periods, across every single file.

Re: If we lose the Internet Archive, we’re screwed

#578

Post by Bjartr »

Bjartr wrote: post #414
modriano wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am so sick and tired of the copyright laws that play counter to productive creation and stymying efforts to preserve anything. The fact that I have to wait until people die until copyright is up is god awful. So what's the right way to balance the need to preserve artistic/creative works and the rights of the creator to monitize or permit usage of their works? It seems rather gross to just say that the creator ha…

You return to the original concept of (American) copyright. Encourage more creative work by exchanging a temporary government granted monopoly now for the promise of it becoming available to society's benefit later. Current copyright terms are too long. Not everything needs to be monetizable to the nth degree in perpetuity in order for sustainable livelihoods to exist.

As qyph mentions, I am referencing the American Copyright Act of 1790. It described itself as "An Act for the encouragement of learning, by securing the copies of maps, Charts, And books, to the authors and proprietors of such copies, during the times therein mentioned." or, in more modern english "This is a law that aims to encourage learning by granting authors and owners of maps, charts, and books exclusive rights to their copies for a specified period."

Re: If we lose the Internet Archive, we’re screwed

#579

Post by Robotbeat »

EntrePrescott wrote: post #555
Robotbeat wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, there is no such moral right. It’s an artificial right we created (actually mostly taking away the natural right for people to free copy whatever). And then through corruption, ended up expanding to absurdity and locking it in via treaties and all the propaganda that the vast majority of people swallow whole and take it for granted like fish take water for granted.

> the natural right for people to free copy whatever Practical as it may be, that's not a natural right but merely a physical possibility. More generally, the concept of natural rights - except for a very narrow niche of special subjects closely centered on the individual's own life and bodily autonomy - is a shortcut to total subjectivity at best. And even for that very narrow niche, the "rights" part is a normative…

That’s a fast track to undermining any moral right whatsoever, including especially any claim about “copyright.”

Copyright and IP actually are violating individual autonomy. It restricts what you can say or write.

Re: If we lose the Internet Archive, we’re screwed

#580

Post by simiones »

ncallaway wrote: post #158
simiones wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not. The copyright system essentially has two serious issues: the extraordinary length, and DMCA takedown notices that are too easy to abuse. But what IA did infringes even on a hypothetically repaired copyright system where the maximum age of copyright was something like 10-20 years, and where DMCA take-downs were hard to abuse. There's just no reason to allow any random entity to distribute books that i…

> But what IA did infringes even on a hypothetically repaired copyright system where the maximum age of copyright was something like 10-20 years, and where DMCA take-downs were hard to abuse. In that world, IA would be able to make available any 20+ year book via their program. In that world, I think it’s _much_ less likely that they feel any pressure to lend out copyright covered books, and if they did I would be ou…

If they had extended this program only to 20+ year old books (or whatever they deem fair), I would agree with you, but the sharing program included any book they had archived whatsoever, as far as I have read about this.
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