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Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

cnn.com

571–580 of 605 posts

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#571
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And none of those cultures have cultures nearly as strong as the Quebecois, which is basically a global cultural brand at this point.

Yeah Acadian/Cajun totally unknown of /s

https://www.theadvocate.com/curious_louisiana/curious-louisi...

> Some data suggest there are perhaps 120,000 French speakers in the state, down from about 1 million just 60 years ago. Of those, perhaps 20,000 speak Cajun French, others traditional French.

Sounds like the culture is thriving.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#572
post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the granularity of your analysis is the century, you may have a point. Otherwise, Europe has experienced a significant decrease of far-right activity and popularity between WW2 and the 2000's, approximately.

Why constrain to a weird length of 75-80 years? Despots can and do learn from history which can easily span a few hundred years, if not more. Heck, you have videos of 1930s fascists' speeches on Youtube.

> Why constrain to a weird length of 75-80 years?

Because I'm talking of a recent trend, and this timeframe offers a relevant context.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, American culture is not homogeneous either. There are multiple cultures throughout the country. Whatever version of thinking you're talking about is likely has both supporters and detractors here.

It's not a version of USA culture (not American), it's the propagation of Capitalism, of the "american" dream, of USA exceptionalism. The idea that their army is the coolest and will save us from aliens, that their bilionaires (oligarchs) are secretly superheroes, that foreign leaders are crooks secretly plotting to conquer the world and so on.

[flagged]

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#574
As an Italian I have really mixed feelings about this. When you hear people speaking on TV they mix-in so may English words that at times it becomes difficult to understand what they are saying. People forget or don't ever learn the Italian words for simple things like `spelling` and `to set`.

> requires anyone who holds an office in public administration to have “written and oral knowledge and mastery of the Italian language.” This might be useful, but it will be applied badly (as they do) so you get people that don't intermingle English words but the speak only in the local dialect or with an accent so thick that they might as well be speaking another language.

> It also prohibits use of English in official documentation, including “acronyms and names” of job roles in companies operating in the country.

I don't have great feeling about this as we have words that are correctly taken from another language because they did not had a counter part (mouse for example) so this will breed horrible new Italian versions of the English words: we will have to work with a "computatore" (remember nobody will remember that "calcolatore" already exists) and a "topo".

> Under the proposed law, the Culture Ministry would establish a committee whose remit would include “correct use of the Italian language and its pronunciation” in schools, media, commerce and advertising. The sentiment is good, the Italian language is a beautiful language, we need to learn to speak it correctly and help it evolve naturally, but I feel the approach is wrong and reminds me of a similar thing that the goverment did during the fascist regime where people where forced to even change their name because it sounded too foreign...

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up with blackface (zwarte piet), sung about him/her, even was one on occasion. Never thought anything about it. Until out of nowhere I get called a racist and people show up screaming "Racist!" at a, what was always, just a fun time for kids. Sure, I, and many people in my country, had a reaction against it, very conservative in nature. But now, over a few years and seeing some reasonable people explain to me…

As a white British male I was never a victim in this so I know the apology is not for me, but I greatly appreciate the message you convey. It felt wrong seeing no replies to your post; this is deserving of a response and so: thank you for your time and your honesty .

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an artefact of how Germanic languages can often just glue words together without explicit connective words "Sfera di neve" doesn't like a word whole "snow globe" does and indeed some write it as "snowglobe"

That's not especially distinctive of Germanic languages. Chinese will do it exactly the same way, though the chains of nouns that are common in Germanic would be unusual to say the least in Chinese. But gluing words together without explicit connections is common pretty much everywhere. Compare Greek, which freely forms adjectives that way, or Latin sanguisuga "bloodsuck[er]" (leech) or lucifer "light-bear[er]" (ligh…

Chinese has quite nearly the opposite problem: compounds are so pervasive that they'll think any disyllable is a compound, identifiable morphemes or no, even if it's a phonetic loan.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#577
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Rammstein put it in perspective how it feels sometimes. [1] [1] https://youtu.be/Rr8ljRgcJNM

And that was 19 years ago!

There's an even older Italian song about it: https://youtu.be/BqlJwMFtMCs

I guess driven by significant emigration from Italy to USA. Here in Portugal, we also have some... Issues... With France emigrants who return to the country.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#578
post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why constrain to a weird length of 75-80 years? Despots can and do learn from history which can easily span a few hundred years, if not more. Heck, you have videos of 1930s fascists' speeches on Youtube.

> Why constrain to a weird length of 75-80 years? Because I'm talking of a recent trend, and this timeframe offers a relevant context.

But your original assertion is that American far-right movement is being exported to Europe. Now if you are going to stop precisely at the moment when European fascism (which has a big influence on American far right) died down, then obviously that's going to be tautological. So not sure that qualifies as American export to Europe.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because there are other problems that are more pressing or severe doesn't mean that the proposed solution to a particular problem is not worth pursuing.

I guess it depends on whether the amount of effort applied to solving the problems is proportional to the severity of the problems. On this side of the Atlantic, we have a catastrophic opioid epidemic, crumbling infrastructure, inflation and recession, failing national and state-level institutions, mass shootings, growing income inequality, race- and class-warfare, and out-of-control policing. But what are ~50% of ou…

I would rather that all of your politicians focus on genitals. Maybe that would stop them from agitating for war on the other side of the planet. But thank God that 'America is back,' am I right?

Anyway, the subject was Italy's policies. As for your guess, there is actually a group of people whose role, among others, is to assess the correct amount of effort applied to solving a problem: they're called Italian voters.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#580
Regardless of the different (usually bad faith) arguments on whether elected Italian officials are allowed to pass legislation on the Italian language, I would like to point out that this article contains a brazen lie:

'This would mean that saying “bru-shetta” instead of “bru-sketta” could be a punishable offense.'

What is CNN's or the author's incentive to deliberately insert mud-slinging into an article about a country's politicians drafting laws?

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