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Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

congress.gov

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Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#571

Post by Madmallard »

withinboredom wrote: post #164

Maybe someone will scroll all the way down to this comment. Probably not. For half a decade, I have lived outside of the US, and I've watched as it has fallen to shit in slow motion. I make a decent chunk of income in USD and this terrifies me... but this. This move saddens me. There are only so many hours that congress has to make real decisions ... and this, this is what they spent their time on? Talking about how…

Or you could realize that Tiktok is a bad thing for society, which is absolutely true, along with many other tech inventions.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#572

Post by insane_dreamer »

jpgvm wrote: post #224
gman83 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But China actively blocks all US social media companies, right? The social media companies aren't the ones blocking Chinese users from joining. They just don't operate any offices in China.

They aren't prevented from entering the market but their existing products are banned because they don't abide by PRC censorship and data sharing requirements. The post you are replying to explains this in detail. Google, Facebook, etc all either had products in China or planned products in China but all voluntarily withdrew for various reasons. I imagine low market share vs domestic services was probably the largest…

> Google, Facebook, etc all either had products in China or planned products in China but all voluntarily withdrew for various reasons. I imagine low market share vs domestic services was probably the largest reason.

No, Google withdrew because it refused to continue censoring results (and this was back before censorship become much more pervasive, in the 2010s). It wasn't a monopoly like in the US but had a good 30% market share (which in China is a lot). FB, which started later, never even got started in China because censorship of individual posts -- even worse than censoring search results -- would have caused an uproar with FB's user base in the US/Europe.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#573

Post by rootusrootus »

soderfoo wrote: post #556
dragonwriter wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The United States does not have a strong democracy. Half (more or less) of the population believes the election was rigged. From various recent polls, it looks like somewhere between 30-40%, somewhere under 2/3 of Republicans and Republican-leaners and basically no one else.

30% is about par for the course when it comes to contemporary controversial POTUS elections [1][2]. It seems to ebb and flow: each side takes their turn being the aggrieved party and then alternate next go around (2000, 2016, 2020). Consecutive cycles of animosity on one side could be worrying. The tapestry of dysfunctional patchwork that make up the American Constitutional Republic, while tattered and frayed before,…

> Consecutive cycles of animosity on one side could be worrying.

Is that not what we're experiencing now?

It's hard to 'both sides' this issue with a straight face, when the biggest election denier in America is a former president and current presidential candidate. When was the last time that happened?

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#574

Post by rayiner »

Thiez wrote: post #496
rayiner wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are only so many hours that congress has to make real decisions ... and this, this is what they spent their time on? Talking about how 'kids' might be influenced by an algorithm when they're being influenced every day by how they might get shot up in math class? What do you think causes kids to shoot up their math class?

Are you seriously suggesting that banning TikTok will significantly reduce school shootings?

I’m asking in general terms what OP thinks causes school shootings.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#575

Post by edgyquant »

withinboredom wrote: post #346
sebzim4500 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe that a significant portion of iOS users are going to set up an Apple development account and manually reinstall TikTok every week then I have a bridge to sell you. They will just switch to a different social network, which is equally destructive but not Chinese.

I didn’t do anything special. I just installed Xcode, and bam. Done. We ripped CDs so we didn’t have to buy them. Hell, we sat by boomboxes until the right song came on the radio just to push record on the tape player. Kids will do whatever it takes to get what they want. I’d buy that bridge.

Most kids didn’t rip CDs though, they had a friend who was good with computers that occasionally did this for them.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#576

Post by srj »

remarkEon wrote: post #432
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the RESTRICT Act is the one being held up as the ban bill because it's bipartisan and considered most likely to 1) actually move to a vote because of that and 2) creates a legal framework for a ban rather than just implementing one which is likely to be unwound by a court and found unconstitutional without it

Why is S.85 likely to be unwound by the courts? It's with a different committee and cites a different act for its legal authority.

Bill of attainder?

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#577

Post by krapp »

iudqnolq wrote: post #567
OzyM wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the ideal number of suicides is 0, and the ideal amount of spyware is 0, etc. All of these are targets, but an ideal doesn't give you further information on how to prioritize

Many other countries have succeeded at bringing school shootings to zero, providing the fundamental feasibility in principle. That makes the difference.

The difference in America is that Americans really don't want to. By the time Sandy Hook happened, Americans had already long decided as a culture that they were willing to trade the lives of their children to protect their sacred right to keep and bear arms. Hell, many are happy to, as long as the kids aren't theirs.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#578

Post by scythe »

gorwell wrote: post #214

Did anyone notice that the bill doesn't even mention Tiktok??? If it's a "bill to ban TikTok" why doesn't it name the target? It's a red herring. This is the Patriot Act for the Internet. Ironically they're copying the CCP playbook and want the same level of sweeping control with the implementation of a Great Firewall. It's extremely broad and includes everything connected to the internet that has >1M users in a year…

I think that one particular subsection deserves a lot more attention:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686...

>(2) INAPPLICABILITY OF FOIA.—Any information submitted to the Federal Government by a party to a covered transaction in accordance with this Act, as well as any information the Federal Government may create relating to review of the covered transaction, is exempt from disclosure under section 552 of title 5, United States Code (commonly referred to as the “Freedom of Information Act”).

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#579

Post by sacnoradhq »

withinboredom wrote: post #164

Maybe someone will scroll all the way down to this comment. Probably not. For half a decade, I have lived outside of the US, and I've watched as it has fallen to shit in slow motion. I make a decent chunk of income in USD and this terrifies me... but this. This move saddens me. There are only so many hours that congress has to make real decisions ... and this, this is what they spent their time on? Talking about how…

"Decline of Empires: The Signs of Decay": Jan 22, 2008; Chalmers Johnson.

https://youtu.be/Q2CCs-x9q9U

Apathy, learned helplessness, inaction, cult-like fervor, magical thinking, pan-colonial ambitions, and inability to fund or defend itself lead a society to ruin.

The thing is that every 8-12 generations (250+-50 years), a civilization must rework or recommit itself or it slides into decline and decay.

No rampant conservative moral panic crusade, violent upheaval, civil war, or totalitarian junta can rebuild what divides left or right, or rebalances fewer haves and many more have nots.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#580

Post by iudqnolq »

krapp wrote: post #577
iudqnolq wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many other countries have succeeded at bringing school shootings to zero, providing the fundamental feasibility in principle. That makes the difference.

The difference in America is that Americans really don't want to. By the time Sandy Hook happened, Americans had already long decided as a culture that they were willing to trade the lives of their children to protect their sacred right to keep and bear arms. Hell, many are happy to, as long as the kids aren't theirs.

Sort of. Sandy Hook meaningfully changed polling. Americans broadly support the idea someone should do something. Of course, they get colder feet when it gets more specific.

Regardless, this makes it very different from a 0 suicide or 0 spyware goal. Those don't have a similarly reasonable theoretical solution.

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