Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#571

Post by ericmay » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #500

usrusr wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is a "the grass is bleaker on the other side" situation. As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked, impossible to do spontaneous things like walk a few stops, ride with an acquaintance or something like that that would eventually take me home, but not return to some previous stage. With a car…

> As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked... Do you feel the same way about your home? Your day's itinerary will inevitably have to see you return there, too. Too see the other side, it may be useful to think of a personal car as home-like transportation infrastructure and always using public transit…

It's probably not useful to think about car-only infrastructure here in this context as an "either or" scenario or something to empathize with "if only we saw how it felt to be a car owner" for a couple of reasons but primarily because there isn't anything to empathize with since the vast majority of Americans either commute via car now or have in the past, or use a car for all of their daily activities.

> Do you feel the same way about your home? Your day's itinerary will inevitably have to see you return there, too.

This doesn't make any sense and misses the point that was made.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#572

Post by realworldperson » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

MengerSponge wrote: post #496

tropicalbeach wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have that freedom to walk anywhere after parking you know. I have done this 100’s of times. Just park then from there go anywhere you want then just take a taxi or lyft back to your car. Public transport sucks, not sure why so many people people like it. Driving is much better unless you live in a large city like NY or LA. My own climate control, radio for music and podcasts, plus driving is therapeutic. I…

Driving is a luxury, and should be priced accordingly

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#573

Post by vanilla_nut » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #185

vanilla_nut wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a young millenial. I have a number of Gen Z cousins and coworkers who admit that they hate driving, many of which never got a driver's license. I loathe car dependence too, but I suspect a lot is linked to frugality: I grew up with gas prices approaching $5 a gallon and it certainly didn't feel freeing to pay that to go literally anywhere (plus maintenance and upfront costs and insurance, of course).

"...who admit that they hate driving, many of which never got a driver's license." They hate driving or they don't drive because they don't have a license (and thus how can they hate something they don't do)...which one is it? I don't "love" my vehicle, I'm an adult and a vehicle is just a tool. I enjoy the convenience of being able to move from point A to point B on my own schedule. Are there downsides? Of course. F…

Those with licenses hate driving but do it (sparingly) through necessity. Those without licenses still had permits at some point, but found driving stressful enough that they never bothered to get a license.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#574

Post by HardlyCurious » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

dublinben wrote: post #562

HardlyCurious wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really the selling point of mass transit for me. But I have a problem. I'm an introvert and I get fatigued by constant human interaction. I also get fatigued by constant distractions. I really benefit from having some breathing space where I can zone out. Saying it out load makes it sound reckless and inconsistent, doesn't driving require constant attention? But no, somehow I can zone out drive and drive to m…

With safe, separated infrastructure, a commute of the same duration via bicycling or walking would be even better for your physical and mental health. We all live in a prison of car supremacy, whether we realize it or not.

I lived very close to my work for a period and tried bike commuting. I don't disagree with the benefits of doing it, but it's not very realistic for most people in most places.

I was having a hard time NOT getting sweaty on my ride into work because humidity is the highest in the morning. And when I wasnt sweating I was getting rained on, or my hands were freezing, or I got chain grease on my pants.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#575

Post by asciimov » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

AlphaCharlie wrote: post #491

asciimov wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aging millennial that grew up in West Texas, I have the exact opposite feelings. To me cars, equal freedom. I grew up in a small neighborhood, I rode bikes to my friends houses there but my neighborhood was so far removed from other places and stores that there was no other place to go. Getting my license at 16 opened so many doors for me. Now I could go hang out at my other friends houses that lived 10-15 mile…

Do you live in a low density area? I think your point of view aligns well with the idea that increased density and good alternative transit options lead to less need and want for cars. But rural and isolated areas can’t live without a car (or a credible alternative). As much as I’d like car to disappear, there’s a lot of use of it that we can’t replace without severely altering some of the population’s quality of lif…

I'm sure many would consider where I grew up low density. It was just underdeveloped suburban section of a town of 110K people.

I'm sure when everything is in walking distance, that the costs to store a vehicle becomes unmaintainable, and largely unneeded. But for a large swath of American's living outside of the major metros in the north, having a car is just a way of life.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#576

Post by rexpress » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #532

rexpress wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>First, let's establish that the Netherlands is a car country...On a typical day, 1 million people use public transport. Cars are the norm, not trains or bicycles. Anyone visiting a Dutch city can see what a distortion this comment is. The sheer volume of bike traffic on largely safe infrastructure is phenomenal. Imagine if even half of these people took to cars instead, it would be gridlock. Life may be good for Dut…

> Anyone visiting a Dutch city can see what a distortion this comment is. The sheer volume of bike traffic on largely safe infrastructure is phenomenal. Imagine if even half of these people took to cars instead, it would be gridlock. Life may be good for Dutch drivers, but only because so many others leave their cars at home. I was actually considering making the same point, but sarcastically: "B b but, when I was a…

That assumes that the tourists and visitors confine themselves to the major tourist areas. If you bother to cycle outside the major tourist areas of the Netherlands, whether to minor cities or villages, you'll still notice many people cycling for local journeys.

The mistake is people used to car dependence being unable to imagine any alternative, thus refusing to believe that it can be true.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#577

Post by mercutio2 » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

oftitogf wrote: post #240

bamboozled wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it. Not sure if rich people worry about this, which is what the article is about, rich people. Agree wit everything else you said though.

It's not about rich people, it's about people at all levels of wealth in the developed world . Rich relative to the world's poorest, but not the 1% who don't worry about the costs of owning a car.

In the US, no one in the top 40% has to worry about the costs of car ownership.

The richest 1% of Americans are much richer than worrying about the costs of cars, certainly, but the median American income is just very high relative to the cost of car ownership.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#578

Post by olddustytrail » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

_dain_ wrote: post #36

jfk13 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK here: My brother and my 3 (adult, independent) kids all seem to manage fine without cars, and have done so for years. Only one of them lives in London, the others in much smaller places. Sure, there are plenty of areas where it would be really difficult. But there are also a lot more places than just London where it's perfectly possible, depending on family circumstances and lifestyle choices.

Yeah I live car-free in Cardiff. It's doable. But I won't kid myself and say that the public transport is good. It's mediocre like every British city outside London. It's a city of half a million and we don't even have a tram. As a nation we have far too low expectations for public transport.

Glasgow and Edinburgh are fine for public transport.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#579

Post by rhinoceraptor » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 4:39 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #489

sokoloff wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of reliable 15-year old cars. (My wife drives a reliable 18-year old, 225K mile car. We took it on a 1600 mile roundtrip for the winter holidays this year with no particular fear that it wouldn't run like a top for the entire trip.) The idea that cars are only reliable for 5 years and 60K miles is, IMO and IME, quite out-dated. That was more true in the days of carburetors, points-based ignition, and…

I should also point out, and this is something I only learned recently, you can't get a car loan for a car that's over 10 years old. About five years ago my mechanic told me there was a Lexus I needed to look at. Single (obsessive) owner, extremely low miles for the year, extremely clean, my mechanic had done all the work since the time the vehicle was no longer under the Lexus service and warranty. The catch? It was…

I just bought a 2007 F-150 and financed it through my credit union with no issues. Granted, it was $6000 so I only financed it because I didn't want to dip into savings, and it's pretty hard to find a manual transmission pickup in that price range that's clean with below 130k miles.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#580

Post by ianburrell » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 4:40 PM UTC

runako wrote: post #62

david-gpu wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bike sharing services are great in those situations. You don't even need to carry your bike in the train. There is also public transit like trams and buses.

Gentle reminder that a significant portion of society is not able to carry out trips on bikes due to infirmity, disability, or needing to convey someone who cannot bike (e.g. small children).

Taking cars off the roads means more space for the people who do need the roads. Few people are saying get rid of cars entirely, they have important uses. The roads already exist, tearing them out would be stupid. But we shouldn’t design our cities around them and require everyone have one. This has advantages for those who need to drive, reducing traffic.