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The strange case of Britain’s demise

economist.com

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Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#571

Post by blitzar »

iso1631 wrote: post #534
Jochim wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want millionaires to pay for their own care. I want to tax them more than it'd cost them to pay for that care privately. Millionaires paying for their own care is how you end up with a terrible, underfunded, and eventually privatised public care system.

Corbyn's proposal to actually tax millionaires failed dramatically because of his inability to handle the media. Despite it being a policy supported by all sorts of economic think tanks from the IFS to Adam Smith, and has support from the Green party to the LSE, somehow he managed to completely bungle it and push the cause back a generation. Another thing I can't forgive him for.

The problem is more extreme than that - there is not being able to handle the media, and there is Corbyns problem. "Informed voters" are able to precisely articulate what they believe the oposition party (Corbyns) policy is, and what they articulate is not based on any reality that exists on the time space continuum.

I recall at some point last election cycle an interview with a very passionate gentleman in the north who was adamant that we had to "Vote for Change, its time to get Corbyn and his failed policies out of Downing Street". He was utterly certain that Corbyn had been prime minister for the prior four years and the terrible state of the country was down to him.

I am no fan of labour but that environment is not good for anyone and has ultimately (ironically) destroyed the Conservative party.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#572

Post by mbg721 »

blitzar wrote: post #571
iso1631 wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corbyn's proposal to actually tax millionaires failed dramatically because of his inability to handle the media. Despite it being a policy supported by all sorts of economic think tanks from the IFS to Adam Smith, and has support from the Green party to the LSE, somehow he managed to completely bungle it and push the cause back a generation. Another thing I can't forgive him for.

The problem is more extreme than that - there is not being able to handle the media, and there is Corbyns problem. "Informed voters" are able to precisely articulate what they believe the oposition party (Corbyns) policy is, and what they articulate is not based on any reality that exists on the time space continuum. I recall at some point last election cycle an interview with a very passionate gentleman in the north…

If you think that's bad, you wouldn't believe all the crazy stuff people believe Donald Trump did while in office. If you took the name off and got rid of all the self-promotion and bombastic media stuff, people would think of him like an obscure post-Civil-War president you have to know for school and can forget after that.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#573

Post by blitzar »

mbg721 wrote: post #572
blitzar wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is more extreme than that - there is not being able to handle the media, and there is Corbyns problem. "Informed voters" are able to precisely articulate what they believe the oposition party (Corbyns) policy is, and what they articulate is not based on any reality that exists on the time space continuum. I recall at some point last election cycle an interview with a very passionate gentleman in the north…

If you think that's bad, you wouldn't believe all the crazy stuff people believe Donald Trump did while in office. If you took the name off and got rid of all the self-promotion and bombastic media stuff, people would think of him like an obscure post-Civil-War president you have to know for school and can forget after that.

Let me guess ... he was (personally) running a child sex trafficing ring out of the basement of a pizza place?

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#574

Post by [deleted] »

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #486
uejfiweun wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the West really stagnating? If anything, I'd say it's at the peak and continuing to climb. The bulk of the West's power is united under a single language, on a continent that's practically invincible, and it has constructed a system in which the brightest minds from around the world come to the US to work for Western companies and study in Western universities. Sure, China is catching up quickly, but that's becaus…

I mean - you’re wrong. 20 years ago America and Europe dominated the world - today the US is growing increasingly perilous politically and Europe is little more than a museum, irrelevant by the day. The collective economies of Canada, Europe and Australia haven’t grown since 2008. 15 years. The US is the only “western” economy which has actually shown real GDP growth. A staggering number of academics and researchers…

[deleted]

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#575

Post by [deleted] »

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #486
uejfiweun wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the West really stagnating? If anything, I'd say it's at the peak and continuing to climb. The bulk of the West's power is united under a single language, on a continent that's practically invincible, and it has constructed a system in which the brightest minds from around the world come to the US to work for Western companies and study in Western universities. Sure, China is catching up quickly, but that's becaus…

I mean - you’re wrong. 20 years ago America and Europe dominated the world - today the US is growing increasingly perilous politically and Europe is little more than a museum, irrelevant by the day. The collective economies of Canada, Europe and Australia haven’t grown since 2008. 15 years. The US is the only “western” economy which has actually shown real GDP growth. A staggering number of academics and researchers…

[deleted]

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#576

Post by [deleted] »

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #486
uejfiweun wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the West really stagnating? If anything, I'd say it's at the peak and continuing to climb. The bulk of the West's power is united under a single language, on a continent that's practically invincible, and it has constructed a system in which the brightest minds from around the world come to the US to work for Western companies and study in Western universities. Sure, China is catching up quickly, but that's becaus…

I mean - you’re wrong. 20 years ago America and Europe dominated the world - today the US is growing increasingly perilous politically and Europe is little more than a museum, irrelevant by the day. The collective economies of Canada, Europe and Australia haven’t grown since 2008. 15 years. The US is the only “western” economy which has actually shown real GDP growth. A staggering number of academics and researchers…

[deleted]

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#577

Post by wazoox »

gernb wrote: post #302
wazoox wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. In France Macron hold total power with less than 30% of voters and less than 30% of good opinion in polls. His "pension reform" has everyone against it, the unions, all political parties but his own, even the employers association, but it will be enforced anyway. Democracy is dead, and it even began to smell.

> Democracy is dead, and it even began to smell. what's your solution?

We need better representation, and for instance designate Senators from random draw from the voters pool to make it a proposition force.

Also we need to dismantle most of the constitutional changes of the past 30 years, which created several layers of pretend democratic assemblies (city, metropolis, department, region) that nobody understands nor care about, and are only useful to feed a large crowd of professional politicians.

And most important, we must dismantle the rampant control of these by the state through the nationalisation of taxes. Almost all local taxation which used to be defined and voted by the city councils, departmental assemblies etc have been taken over by the state, which nominally redistributes the money but keeps control of it, effectively killing all local democratic processes and politics.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#578

Post by asdadsdad »

astrange wrote: post #568
asdadsdad wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is: if you have to leave the US due to immigration, frankly I'd rather go to Britain than Canada. At least I get an exciting change in lifestyle. Canada is too close to America in what it tries to do but fails. UK is f* up, but at least it's Europe

May be the the first time I’ve heard the UK called “exciting”.

lol. fair. London is still better than Toronto tho.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#579

Post by int_19h »

alvah wrote: post #504
int_19h wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was it ever different?

Allegedly, long before my time, politics was seen as a calling, a way of giving back after a successful career. Not sure how much of that is based in reality, but from what I’ve read the option of politics as an entire career, without doing something productive first, has only existed for the last ~40 years

I would argue that politics has been primarily a "professional" occupation for most of human history. And there were certainly plenty of generational political families in Western countries before the past 40 years.

I suspect that the only thing that changed is the PR. When mass media is mostly centralized, dominated by a few large radio/TV channels and newspapers, it's not hard to manufacture a public image.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#580

Post by int_19h »

mjfl wrote: post #474
int_19h wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democratically elected people can absolutely be a danger to democracy. I remember when Russia democratically elected Putin. In 5 years, all opposition TV channels were owned by the government and the oligarchs that chose subserviency over prison. In 10 years, elections were so blatantly fraudulent that voting became pointless.

Yeah but you don't see the problem with trying to influence the elections in Italy by obviously bad comparison between Georgia Meloni and Putin?

I don't see it as a bad comparison. Putin wasn't eating babies when he was first elected, either; but his background gave ample reasons for concern, which some people did voice at the time, and which was fully realized eventually.
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