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Everything with a battery should have an off switch

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Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#571

Post by Timpy »

zepolen wrote: post #494
Timpy wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you had an array of considerations when buying an electronic safebox, but this is the bottom line as to why I would never buy one. As a programmer my day job is "this isn't working the way it's supposed to, lets figure out why and fix it." I can't fathom ever wanting to deal with that stuff when I get off work. A lock and key have been working just fine since the Roman times, it's relatively easy to conceptu…

Why did you pick a job you wouldn't do in your free time, doesn't that get tedious?

I started with a career related to my free time hobby but I ended up hating my job and hating my hobby, my life is much better now.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#572

Post by indrora »

fennecfoxy wrote: post #570

>Buys lowest common denominator/cheapest product >"oh no this product is really bad and the features don't make sense" Alright buddy. There are plenty of devices I have without an off switch that work perfectly fine. In terms of controllers, the Xbox controllers I have will go to sleep after not having been used for a little while and conserve battery that way. The problem isn't lack of off switches, it's the lack of…

Except that the PDP folks are the biggest name in blessed Switch controllers, making many of the officially licensed character controllers such as the Mario and Luigi branded ones. They were given access to the original GameCube controller molds and design files and created the better SSB controllers. The hierarchy is

Nintendo, PDP, hyperkin, 8bitdo, everyone else.

This is endemic to the PDP controllers. If I want to turn off an Xbox One controller, I can pop the batteries or it'll turn off after it's not connected for 30 seconds. PDP wireless Switch controllers? 10 minutes later and they're still hunting for their paired console, often with no way to forcibly turn it off.

Even 8bitdo do in several iterations have Xbox style battery compartments and their fighter pad has a physical switch.

PDP can ship these cheap because they can have loss leaders in the low cost options, making up for the difference with their high end controllers and even their rather extensive selection of other console controllers. Ironically, their switch joycon charger dock is one of the best and some of their headsets are rivaling even the better Gamer ones now.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#573

Post by myroon5 »

npteljes wrote: post #226

My most ridiculous experience was when an MP3 player froze back in the day. We had no way to switch off, or pull the battery out, so we waited 2 weeks, until the battery was dead. Then it worked fine after a recharge.

Accidentally fork bombed a MacBook and had to wait for it to die as well. Had to put it in the fridge for a bit of that time due to overheating as well

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#574

Post by rekado »

Nanite wrote: post #4

Examples lying around in my house: Bathroom scale: lovely it powers up when you tap it, but eats up 2 button cells a year for a few dozen uses a year Kitchen scales, bit more use, at least once a day but again 2 button cells a year electronic caliper: Same, eats up 1 button cell a year, just sitting in my toolbox Strangely enough none of our kids toys with batteries seem to suffer from this problem How much extra cos…

My digital bathroom scale doesn't have batteries; it has a big capacitor and a foot-operated push-button that charges it. I tap the button maybe three times and that's enough energy to use it. It was also dirt-cheap.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#576

Post by foxyv »

teekert wrote: post #10

…And, one should be able to turn of every led even when powered on… At Ikea I almost bought a nice brushed steel extractor hood, except it had this obnoxiously bright blue led on the front. Why? I know when that thing is on without it drawing my attention constantly. Same with my Lenovo X13 gen 2, there is a bright white led next to the power button… just why…???

A set of paint markers are useful for these LEDs. Especially the ones used for small figurines.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#577

Post by exmadscientist »

baybal2 wrote: post #202
exmadscientist wrote: post #3

(Background: I work in product design/new product development, and conceivably might have designed this thing! If any of those were still designed in the Western world. Which they aren't. I have designed some stuff like it, though!) Oh, great, this debate again! I shall use this post as ammunition next time I am arguing with our stupid design team about why we need an off switch on the stupid product we are designing…

Can you tell whether you work in a product design company, or an engineering company? Does that come from clients? I used the same 3-in-1 latch circuit for power on/off, pairing, and software power off for 12 years. A good enhancement mode NMOS FET can be as good as a physical switch at low voltages. If you really need nano-amp level leakage current AND very low drop, you can consider turning to beefy depletion mode…

> Can you tell whether you work in a product design company, or an engineering company?

Both! There aren't many of those out there, so I probably just outed myself. Oh well. Keep it quiet please?

> A good enhancement mode NMOS FET can be as good as a physical switch at low voltages.

Yes, it can work very well. You are correct that it need not be a physical switch. But it still does nothing if it is never brought out to the device's interface. And physical switches are still preferable if the software is broken, as it often happens to be during development.

> you can consider turning to beefy depletion mode devices

Depletion mode devices are not cost effective. If you think they are, point me to one cheaper than the LND150. (And, yes, I do know how to use them. Many designers do not.)

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#578

Post by LorenPechtel »

Buttons840 wrote: post #17
Nanite wrote: post #4

Examples lying around in my house: Bathroom scale: lovely it powers up when you tap it, but eats up 2 button cells a year for a few dozen uses a year Kitchen scales, bit more use, at least once a day but again 2 button cells a year electronic caliper: Same, eats up 1 button cell a year, just sitting in my toolbox Strangely enough none of our kids toys with batteries seem to suffer from this problem How much extra cos…

Both bathroom and kitchens scales are large enough they can run on AA / AAA batteries and casually go a decade (or more) without replacement. Tangentially: I used to have a 3 button timer, it was a little LCD countdown display and 3 buttons. One button set hours, one minutes, and one starts / stops the countdown timer. I found this timer when I was a kid, used, and the 1 AAA battery it had lasted into adulthood, lite…

That's asking for corrosion damage from the battery.

I've got a bathroom scale that goes several years on it's pair of coins even though it turns on only when stepped on. I suspect there's a physical switch involved, though.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#579

Post by LorenPechtel »

progbits wrote: post #119
narag wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this ultracheap made-in-China big kitchen clock, with a single AA that I've replaced twice in eight years. I don't buy expensive batteries, more like in line with the clock. It has second hand (the kind that doesn't tick but appears to move uniformly) so there is some extra mechanical work.

I think the quality is hit and miss, even with premium batteries. I had enough devices damaged or entirely ruined by a leaked battery so now I remove them from anything not actively used. If anyone knows a reliable model for AA/AAA cells that will absolutely not leak when left unused in a device for year+ I would love to hear it.

My solution for this sort of thing is the rarely-used devices get lithium cells. More expensive but they're not prone to leaking once they're discharged.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#580

Post by LorenPechtel »

Tade0 wrote: post #8
Nanite wrote: post #4

Examples lying around in my house: Bathroom scale: lovely it powers up when you tap it, but eats up 2 button cells a year for a few dozen uses a year Kitchen scales, bit more use, at least once a day but again 2 button cells a year electronic caliper: Same, eats up 1 button cell a year, just sitting in my toolbox Strangely enough none of our kids toys with batteries seem to suffer from this problem How much extra cos…

Could you check the voltage on those cells next time you swap? I've found that seemingly similar devices have very different notions of what constitutes a discharged battery. I have a remote controlled humidifier and RGB LED - controllers for which use one and two infrared LEDs respectively. Both are powered by CR2025 button cells, which when new have an open circuit voltage of 3.3V and 2.7V once depleted. The two-LE…

No-load voltage is not the same as the voltage under load.

The two-LED device drew more current and thus the voltage dropped more.

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