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Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

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Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#571

Parent of a teen, one anecdote to add. You see what all your friends are doing all the time. Every gathering or event that you where not a part of you see, sometimes in real time. People hate being excluded, and this greatly amplifies this feeling. I'm certain I missed out on a ton of cool stuff as a kid, but at least I didn't have to see it.

Similar, but different. I don't let my child use social media at all, and limited to 30 mins screen time total a day. She's excluded in that all her friends use TikTok, and she can't. Maybe it's for the best. My parents used to say 'if all your friends jumped off a bridge...', and I hated it, so I haven't used that one yet. I'm trying to rely on actual merits instead of follower cliches.

I'm 17, and I've grown up with a smart phone in my hand.

I wish my parents reduced the extent to which I was exposed to recommendation algorithms at a young age.

Recently, I've become aware of how much of the time I spend on social media is not necessarily time I want to be spending there. The problem with recommendation algorithms is that they always recommend you continue watching and scrolling. When I was young, I used to read 500 page books like they were nothing, but as I've spent more time on short form entertainment, the harder it has become for me to engage in long form content like books. I still do fine in school, and I've been generally successful, but I feel like if I can't sit in silence for 30 minutes, I'm not really in control of myself. Any time I have a period of boredom or free time, it's easy to fill it with entertainment, rather than thinking on my own.

I've been trying to break these habits (or, honestly, addictions) recently, but it's really hard after years of conditioning.

I don't think modern recommendation media is completely negative, but it is built on getting people addicted, and I can see why you don't want that for your children.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#572

Unpopular opinion: Social media is a great scapegoat, but it is not the source of the problem. It is where they go to communicate and cope. My sole qualification to post this: I have four kids that are either teens or in their early 20s, and one who will be a teen next year. Here is what I see out there: 1. Kids have little or no slack in their schedule. This means very little freedom, and very little time to work th…

It's not the only source of the problem, but social media is certainly a big one. Back in the day you didn't get rape threats from 50 anonymous accounts, or see pictures of you photoshopped sucking dicks, or feel like even more of a loser because you see in 4K detail how everybody else in class is having more fun outside of school. The internet is a threat and embarrassment and envy machine. You feel like you're cons…

The internet was certainly a lot lower stakes and fun in the 90s and early 2000s. We had fun taking over the mic and singing karaoke in Yahoo chatrooms, watching albino black sheep, and playing flash games on kongregator. Even early Facebook was just making funny groups and posting in each other's walls.

None of those activities really had me envying anyone else. I remember the first thing that made me feel worthless and unaccomplished was TED talks!

I agree the problem is that it's hard to separate our online life from our offline life now.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#573
post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article points out correlation, which would be also explained by GP's comment

It's not even really correlated. The timing is off. Teen Social Media usage exploded in the early to mid 2000s and all the bad trends started 2010 or later. Plus, it was a seismic event. We went from little social media in 2000 to ubiquity by 2010. We should have seen one big rise to a new steady state not a continually increasing problem.

Social media definitely picked up 2000-2010, but the current manifestation of it didn't really lock in until ~2010 with the advent of the iPhone, instagram, snapchat, and all the other social media mobile apps that compelled people to constantly be sucked into it throughout the day rather than just whenever they were on or near a PC or laptop.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind it stood for things like "risk-seeking" or "adventurous", basically being a kid. Not everything has to be political.

Okay thanks, that actually works here. I'm still not sure it's what OP meant, but I prefer to assume apolitical motivation unless otherwise stated, so I like your interpretation. I actually couldn't get what he was trying to say, not trying to posture.

I was equally confused as you are.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#575
post #465

Ofc it is plummeting. We are letting them install apps that have people behind them with the sole job of making them more addictive. We are handing them drugs, multiple variants if I may say so. I had to fight with my daughter for TikTok and whatnot, she is only allowed with YouTube due to school/tutorials/classes etc and I still find myself pretty often having to snap her out of shorts and other bs with an algorithm…

It's not a problem that can be solved at an individual level.

Physical drugs are relatively easy to not get into because for the most part, the majority of society doesn't use them and their users are still mostly marginalized. If your current social group are drug addicts it's possible to find a new, healthier group.

Digital drugs on the other hand are something that nearly everyone uses and thus you have to use them if you want to effectively fit in and participate in society. Not consuming these drugs just makes you an outcast especially in a ruthless environment such as school.

The solution is regulation to make digital-drug-dealing illegal. Kill this whole "attention economy" with fire and make such a disgusting business model impossible to operate and the problem will self-resolve.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#576
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think teenagers are thinking about pensions... If they are they are probably already having mental issues because that's not something someone pre 20s should be concerned about. People in this thread need to stop projecting their problems and worldviews as universal social issues.

Idk but in France, when I was still a teenager, it was not that uncommon to talk/joke about the fact that we will never be able to retire. In high school, most of my classmate already started to have a political conscience and where thinking about this kind of stuff. Same with the environment. We already had social media at the time (mostly facebook) and yes, I won't deny that there was already something anxious abou…

Unfortunately, the way I've felt during my childhood, French schools don't teach critical thinking. Basically every student comes out of school saying exactly the same thing: more government, more power to the government, politicians, public services... Most schools are run by the government after all, and obviously governments will claim they need more power or society will decay.

So from a young age students are basically taught to give up their power if not their lives to authorities, to politics. It has to be politics, it can't come from the individual. So they don't care about freedom or personal sovereignty (that's evil), they ask for government, rules, laws and taxes like would seniors. And they call that protection, if not "progress".

I don't blame you, it's hard to stand across a tidal wave, especially when young. But how about standing out a bit from the herd once and think outside of the political box?

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Don't try to downplay the role of internet, mobile devices and social media' Exhibit A people: we have impeding total collapse of the ecosystem, and they blame 'too many phones'. Have you spoken to a teenager lately? All my younger colleagues are convinced they are the ones that will have to deal with the mess, and they are probably right

It's funny how people don't associate the endless stream of shiny gadgets they own, that are stuffed full with the latest and greatest in rare minerals, with the destruction of the ecosystem. Just to pick a recent-ish story at random: https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/nickel-deforestation

Buying a smartphone every year or two absolutely pales in comparison with having to rent a poorly insulated flat that is heated with oil in a city that forces you to own a car to get to work in a country that mostly burns coal and gas for electricity. Individual choices can only save a small part of your emissions. Blaming individuals for problems that need state policy is an effective tool of fossil fuel interest groups.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#578
post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teenagers back then had more to look forward to. You work for some local company for three decades, then you retire, picking up a house somewhere in the process and are able to put your kids in college. Family members die, but who cares? Sure, it'll traumatize you, but it doesn't ruin your future. Not like that hasn't been happening consistently over the past few years with a pandemic. Nowadays, what's anyone got to…

People who were teens during WW2 would not have known these things. In their era people more often than not died before retirement. Many people had no pension. Most people did not go to college so they would only dream that someday they or their kids would. With their parents having lived through the Great Depression neither housing nor food were guaranteed. The time you’re thinking of is well past the war during the…

"well past the war during the late 50s and 60s and even they had to deal with the threat of nuclear war and actual wars like Korea and Vietnam and yet they didn’t lose hope."

Right, I remember that period well (see my comment below).

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#579

Unpopular opinion: Social media is a great scapegoat, but it is not the source of the problem. It is where they go to communicate and cope. My sole qualification to post this: I have four kids that are either teens or in their early 20s, and one who will be a teen next year. Here is what I see out there: 1. Kids have little or no slack in their schedule. This means very little freedom, and very little time to work th…

I kinda agree and kinda disagree. My context is that I was youngish (late teens) when Facebook first arrived in force, and we'd had MySpace/MSN before that. My other context is that I have had an anxiety disorder for a while and was diagnosed with asperger's (we still say that in Europe) not long before I turned 30.

I think I would always have had an issue, but I can quite directly point to the pressure cooker environment of getting into University. It is "not enough" simply to be good academically (which I was), you also needed to be a well rounded person, so you better use all your spare time doing activities to signal your well-roundedness!

I don't feel I was explicitly trying to do this, but I also, being 17, didn't really say no - I mean how do you say no to a bunch of career advisors telling you "you have a chance to go to the top university!!!" etc.

In such an environment, there's little respite, because there's always some kids telling you what they are doing.

I don't think social media in and of itself is to blame, but what it does, in concert with phones, is remove any and all "downtime" from this messaging. There's an encouraged perfectionism, so young people are bombarded with images of how _great_ everyone else's life is. Not only are kids pushy/perfect in the canteen, but now they're pushy/perfect at 10pm on your mobile too.

I struggled very badly with this at university. By that time I was a guy with panic attacks trying to keep up with a course, and I wanted to do all the normal stuff too like party. Of course since I _couldn't_ always do this it ended up being interpreted by most people as "let's not invite him". Social media wasn't directly responsible for this situation, but it is definitely a negative contributing factor. When you're far from home doom-scrolling facebook and all the stuff you missed that you're being left out of, this is really not helpful.

So what I think is that social media will reinforce people who are naturally self-confident, but it will not help people who have issues. I suspect every experience is slightly different, but the inability to escape constant reminders of your own inadequacy, if interpreted that way, is a problem.

Or if I can sum it up, it is simply the same old social/peer pressure, extended to 24/7.

What helps a lot is a moderating influence, a reminder that it is OK to be just normal.

I am also very, very glad I grew up when I did. All my early teenage years were free of any of this - we had MSN and texting and all the usual teenage angst, but you never had mobile doom-scrolling late at night - at best, you could text until you ran out of credit. I feel sorry for young girls particularly growing up with Instagram.

However, I agree that social media is just one factor. Pushy parenting, or pushy schooling, is also a huge risk, as are all the traditional risks like teenagers being horrible bullies to each other.

Addendum: the net impact of pushing me to go to a top university so hard was that I did not go to a top university, and dropped out of a pretty good university officially at the end of the first year, but unofficially I was "done" 6 months in anyway. Absolutely none of this career advice and "enrichment" activity helped me achieve any kind of potential, it just made me miserable and blow up with the stress of it.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#580
post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes that s a good example. "being proud to be black" is diverse, being proud to be white is not. There is definitely a level of doublespeak here, although i'm not sure if teens are really annoyed by it

That’s because we have a history of white supremacy in that country though. Similar to how in Germany you’ll get weird looks if you’re echoing nazi talking points; there’s an existing history and cultural context to that sort of thing in that country that the country now wants to not repeat.

Ya, but a lot of the time you have ostensibly well-meaning people spread around the attitude that it's wrong to be intolerant of others, unless that person is white, or a man, or you're a transphobic woman if you didn't use a particular definition of woman, or you're a creep by default if you're a man. In the last 8 years this sort of rhetoric has been amplified more than ever before, and not just in the states (though arguably that's the dumb dumb epicenter). It also sounds like sort of meme right-wing talking points, and I'm tired of those conversations too (which are also amplified by social media in the same way), but they do come from somewhere.

It shouldn't be controverial to say "This is a space that's welcoming for everyone, unless you start obviously making people feel like they don't belong. It's not ok to harass or attack someone because of their skin colour, or religion, or gender, no matter what that is."

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