Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

mitadmissions.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 1001 posts

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#571

Post by paxys »

cwp wrote: post #471
paxys wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why so many people (myself included) advocate for a pure "software engineering" degree at more universities. Let people who are interested study graph theory, combinatorics, linear algebra, advanced probability and statistics and whatever else. For the rest, provide a path to be ready for an industry job building websites and applications, which is what 90% of graduates will end up doing. Every other…

If all you're interested in is getting a good job, you don't need a degree at all. The information is available for free in a variety of presentations and formats. The source code to just about all the software you'll use is available for free as are all the tools. You don't even need a bootcamp, just time and energy.

Sure, but in the same vein everything you will ever learn at MIT can be found for free online as well. Ultimately a 4-year degree does have value, whether just for the brand, or as a forcing function to learn, or the constant help from teachers and peers or whatever else.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#572

Post by lightup »

dom96 wrote: post #561

As someone from the UK I am confused by this. What were they using to decide who to admit without SAT/ACT tests? In the UK all students pick at least 3 A levels at the end of their high school. Each degree and university then has different requirements like 3 As in Math, Physics, IT (with some alternative subjects) for Computer Science. So my understanding of SAT/ACT testing is limited.

Feelings and "demographics" and surnames.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#573

Post by jacobr1 »

dangle1 wrote: post #555
outlace wrote: post #470

I used to be against standardized tests, but I grew up as a low-income minority in a single-parent household and I ended up getting into good schools pretty much only due to my high test scores, which has been a life changer. Other than test scores, I couldn't afford to do any fancy extra-curriculars. It felt a lot more achievable to know I can change my life if I just focus and do well on a test than it would if I h…

I can relate, and I appreciated the doors the PSAT and SAT opened for me. OTOH, I test higher than my actual abilities in my opinion, and that was a relatively unfair advantage the test gave me.

What does testing higher than one's ability actually mean?

I'm guessing either you think the test is an imperfect proxy for a different (more important) skill, or otherwise you have imposter syndrome.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#574

Post by jmole »

peter303 wrote: post #562

MIT grad here. The achievement tests are more of a counter-indicator If you score under 700 on either test, you probably cant handle the coursework. The tests only test a 10th grade level. I likely would not get into MIT this decade this decade with my test score 1480.

I doubt it - 1480 could easily be indicative of stress-related or attentional mistakes, rather than lack of mastery.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#575

Post by jerojero »

lliamander wrote: post #502
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in slovenia, and the system is pretty much unchanged from the socialist times.... standardized testing + grades are used to get entry into colleges (and previously high schools). No resumes, no diversity/affirmative actions, clubs, volounteering etc... just grades+results.

That sounds nice. Those other things are great, but have little value in terms of academic success. I think that for people who do poorly in academics but well in those other areas should have other avenues of advancing themselves rather than being forced through the college funnel.

It could be nice if access to education is equitable.

In chile we also have grades + standardized test + ranking (your position versus your cohort). But the top universities are filled with the top alumni from expensive private schools because they are usually 1. given inflated grades 2. trained to perform well on standardized tests (in their own schools, theyre rich so they can afford this).

If you look at OECD statistics with regards to quality of education you will see that not everyone in the USA really gets a good primary (and secondary) education and there are gaps. This tends to not be the case in most of Europe... So are standardized exams good for admissions in the USA? Not sure. But obviously replacing it with curriculum might even be worse. So what's really the answer?

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#576

Post by lightup »

spoonjim wrote: post #558
lightup wrote: post #553

My son found out 2 days ago he didn't get accepted to his in-state land grant public university. The University of Minnesota. This was his fall back plan. Now he's screwed and may not be able to start college in fall. His sins: - a 35 ACT score (legit with no studying or ACT prep classes) - a 3.8 weighted GPA (because he took multiple AP classes and actually was in college for his junior and senior years through Minn…

Asian?

No, but I'm sure some of the kids on his math team will be in the same boat even through they're mainly South Asian and Chinese. Backlash against them too it seems.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#577

Post by tomatowurst »

outlace wrote: post #470

I used to be against standardized tests, but I grew up as a low-income minority in a single-parent household and I ended up getting into good schools pretty much only due to my high test scores, which has been a life changer. Other than test scores, I couldn't afford to do any fancy extra-curriculars. It felt a lot more achievable to know I can change my life if I just focus and do well on a test than it would if I h…

what do you think about people who claim standardized test is systematic racism?

standardized test is the only way to measure somebody on their aptitude for doing well like the LSAT.

yet somehow asian americans being discriminated at ivy leagues even with good standardized test score is not seen as systematic racism.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#578

Post by davidgay »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #266

To deal with socioeconomic issues in STEM, start early; very early like K-12. In a vague fantasy world in the USA, I would reduce the Department of Education to a fraction, shift education to the States, take the best parts of the winning systems fom all States, and make Federal recommendations accordingly. Rinse, repeat. I am saddened that most of the children I come across in first-world nations, lack the ability t…

I'm always mildly assumed that Switzerland has 26 widely-different (far more variety than found in the US) school systems with only ~8 million people. And a high-school degree that guarantees entrance into any university in any subject.

Their are federal standards for said high-school degree (also for earlier education stages). And it's a relatively hard degree to get (22% of students get it).

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#579

Post by lliamander »

torginus wrote: post #538
lliamander wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Removing admission tests was a huge slap in the face to social mobility out of the middle class. I agree, but arguably the benefits of the SAT with regard to class mobility is less than it was when it was introduced. The heritability of IQ, combined with assortative mating, means that increasingly class divides are forming around differences in IQ. I think many people are rightly concerned that this will eventually…

The heritability of wealth, combined with assortative mating, means that increasingly class divides are forming around differences in wealth. I think many people are rightly concerned that this will eventually result in simply a different entrenched class hierarchy.

That's how class divides have historically worked, yes. Previously those differences were also enforced through explicit class-based laws (the actually meaning of privilege).

The introduction of free markets, and later IQ testing, disrupted a great deal of the entrenched social class structure within western societies and allowed many people of rather humble backgrounds to achieve great things.

The concern I express is about whether IQ testing will continue provide the same level of social mobility in the future.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#580

Post by tomatowurst »

dom96 wrote: post #561

As someone from the UK I am confused by this. What were they using to decide who to admit without SAT/ACT tests? In the UK all students pick at least 3 A levels at the end of their high school. Each degree and university then has different requirements like 3 As in Math, Physics, IT (with some alternative subjects) for Computer Science. So my understanding of SAT/ACT testing is limited.

because certain demographics performed poorly at it, that was grounds to label it systematic racism and justifying affirmative action vs. meritocracy by discriminating other demographics in favor of ones that were perceived to be victims of systematic racism

if you are confused so am I. I still don't understand how they can discriminate against americans of asian descent who do well on standardized tests but not call it for what it is.

Post reply on HN