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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

ottawacitizen.com

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#571

There are too many people making making similar comments to reply to all of them, so I'm going to make a top level response to all of them. The truckers are NOT protesting against the vaccine itself, and if you believe that they are, I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news. The truckers are protesting the idea that the government can force them to take the vaccine against their will. I would h…

> I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news.

I’d be curious to know the type of apolitical source of news you consume, considering the flat out incorrect claims in your post.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#572

> 5:05 p.m. > Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he has invoked the Emergencies Act as a “last resort” to bolster the police response to convoy demonstrators and to “bring the situation fully under control.” I really feel like there were a number of "resorts" that could've been taken before this "last" one. Engaging in dialogue with the truckers and not inflaming the situation by calling the truckers names are at the…

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like , it is authoritarian response to something which should be protected. Using government power intended for things like war to suppress a protest is ridiculous, if this is what being "liberal" is about, I'm out. I hope the response is a protest escalation. Not my country, not my protest, but I know who I'm rooting for. Contrast this to what was happening in Minneapolis a couple of summers ago... p…

"Using government power intended for things like war" This isn't the war measures act. It is a response specifically targeted to situations like this. "I hope the response is a protest escalation" That's neat. I hope that every protester that misused a privilege of their CDL lose their truck license, lose insurance, have their bank accounts locked, and face enormous fines. I guess we have differing hopes. Sign petiti…

> That's neat. I hope that every protester that misused a privilege of their CDL lose their truck license, lose insurance, have their bank accounts locked, and face enormous fines. I guess we have differing hopes.

Yeah. Ruining people's lives is a weird desire that somehow became very popular in recent years among the same people who usually criticized punitive justice.

> Sign petitions. Make a new political party. Lobby. Do a campaign. But if you try to force your political will through force -- which parking large trucks throughout cities and on border crossings is -- you have crossed a line and need to be reigned in.

Signing petitions and lobbying is a privilege of people with power. Neither the US nor France became a republic by signing petitions. Those are, of course, extremes, but those events are the basis of the liberal democracy, so it is quite ridiculous to dismiss everything beyond petitions and parties as crossing a line. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 wasn't enacted because someone signed a petition either. In fact, the protests were widely unpopular among people (https://imgur.com/4GYbaDt). Gene Sharp, a political scientists that studied nonviolent struggle, described in his book (http://www.aeinstein.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/TARA.pdf ) 198 methods of nonviolent actions, and they include far more possibilities than meek petitions.

>A sort of "look someone previously in a different country and a completely different event tore stuff down so let them go wild in another country to own the libs". Just garbage takes that should be embarrassing to the speaker.

And there is a vicious cycle where people are trying to one-up garbage takes by coming up with more and more ridiculous responses to each other.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#574
post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you try to force your political will through force [...] you have crossed a line and need to be reigned in Like forcing people out of their job for refusing a vaccine? Disclaimer: I'm vaccinated and I encourage everyone to do it. But no one should have to under threat to their livelihood, especially given the absurd logical inconsistencies of the mandate rules.

> Like forcing people out of their job for refusing a vaccine? Before vaccination was politicized in the US ( bizarrely , I must say, through mechanisms that I find absolutely baffling), many jobs had mandatory vaccinations. Most healthcare setting have mandatory yearly flu vaccinations, for instance. The military has a whole plethora of mandatory vaccinations, including some pretty crazy ones. And of course schools,…

I would say the difference is many of the other vaccines actually work. You won’t catch the disease if you get them. The covid vaccine does not do that. Also they fired people for not taking it but now require those who took it but are sick to work anyways. It’s no longer about protecting the population but rather forcing people to do what they are told. Forcing us back to work while sick was the line crossed that changed my mind this vaccine is not about public safety.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#575

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

> Two-thirds of Canadians support military force to end Ottawa protests: poll https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/12/two-thirds-of-canadia... The current approach seems to be a lot more mild than what the public would accept.

I recommend reading the bottom of the article and then googling the Maru Voice Canada the people who ran the poll. They are an organization who's members they poll. A rather small one at that with a probably very high self selection bias. Calling this a survey of Canadians is blatantly false.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#576

There are too many people making making similar comments to reply to all of them, so I'm going to make a top level response to all of them. The truckers are NOT protesting against the vaccine itself, and if you believe that they are, I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news. The truckers are protesting the idea that the government can force them to take the vaccine against their will. I would h…

Abortion is not in any way comparable with this issue. Do not try and force some 'common ground' argument where is isn't one.

I kinda agree, though probably from a different prospective than you.

In the case of abortion, the right of the fetus to its life should be balanced with the bodily autonomy of the mother.

You can make a much stronger argument against mandatory Covid vaccination, since it is mostly about an adult making decisions about their own health.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#577

There are too many people making making similar comments to reply to all of them, so I'm going to make a top level response to all of them. The truckers are NOT protesting against the vaccine itself, and if you believe that they are, I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news. The truckers are protesting the idea that the government can force them to take the vaccine against their will. I would h…

Abortion is not in any way comparable with this issue. Do not try and force some 'common ground' argument where is isn't one.

Agreed. The anti-abortion argument claims that bodily autonomy should be violated because not doing so supposedly results in the direct death of a defenseless child.

The pro-vax mandate argument claims that bodily autonomy should be violated because it supposedly prevents a 0.05% chance of death of an innocent person. (usually adult)

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#578

The number of comments on this that are just fine with wild authoritarian abuses like this "because vaccines are good" is astounding. People have such idealogical myopia and are shocked and appalled when the same measures are used against their interests.

I would argue that you’re misconstruing things. We Canadians had a fairly single issue election in the fall around vaccine mandates and the Liberal party won. The question is not “are mandates allowed” but “can a group be allowed to take cities hostage while trying to overthrow democratic rule.” The issuing of mandates was not even passed through fiat like an American executive order, this government is a minority go…

Maybe the better question you should be asking is whether a simple majority (50%) is enough to justify drastic and extreme countermeasures mandated by the government, two years into a pandemic, with no end in sight. You might think this is a perfectly reasonable and responsible thing to do, but half of your neighbors strongly disagree. Now that vaccines, testing, and masks are widely available, does the government have a right to continue interfering in people's lives? If so, when does it end?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#580
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an exaggerated headline. Accounts being used to fund illegal activities can be frozen. Protesting is not and will not be illegal. Blocking critical infrastructure is illegal.

> "Protesting is not and will not be illegal." The trick is to categorize the protest as something else.

A "protest" that prevents people from crossing a border or shuts down a city isn't a protest. It is hostage-taking.

The US First amendment has some good language on this: the people have a right to peaceably assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Imposing a blockade does not qualify. If they just sit in front of Parliament and hold up signs and shout, but don't impede anyone going about their business, then they have a right to make their voices heard.

But what about (some other protest)? Civil rights protesters are usually ordered to disperse after a short time and get arrested if they don't. Sometimes they engage in civil disobedience, but they can be arrested if they do that.

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