The new job that I was hired for is not the same one I interviewed for.
That is the true reverse of this situation. And frankly, just as bad.
The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed
571–580 of 623 posts
Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed
#572I can't help but wonder: isn't this basically just fraud? Shouldn't the people involved in this go to prison, or at least have some more consequences than losing the job? Are they even entitled to pay for a job that thought it hired someone else?
Then again, there's also the reverse of this: employee gets hired for a job that turns out to be different from the one they interviewed for. I'm pretty sure companies are never going to be held accountable for that one.
Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed
#573Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll present an alternate case, mine. I'm in a senior IC role sitting in India making almost 1/4th of what my US Counterpart makes. I work as much as them if not more. We as Indians are always taught to be sincere and obedient and I try to show that in my work trying to stay up finish the work so that my sincerity is never questioned. I'm always on the side to prove my quality - even though I'm highly underpaid for t…
Your criticism is fair. However "obedient" isn't always what an engineering organization needs. Many times, I wish that our Indian contract workers, would speak out when they see something wrong, about process, quality, or business requests. I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing or what, but it seems they are more hesitant to speak out. It has been my anecdotal observation that our US-born hires are way quicker to sa…
Absolutely. There's some cultural aspect that doesn't always work well in an engineering environment. Almost 3 years ago I had to hire 4 new team members, and two had to be from TCS. At some point in the process, I was happy to just find someone who was able to say "I don't know" to a question. Several tried to bullshit their way through by answering a completely different question than what I asked.
Eventually I found two. One of them was a really solid hire. Backbone of the team. Still not as vocal as any of the non-TCS devs (one of whom was also Indian, but very vocal about his opinion), but he got stuff done and did it well.
Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed
#574Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll present an alternate case, mine. I'm in a senior IC role sitting in India making almost 1/4th of what my US Counterpart makes. I work as much as them if not more. We as Indians are always taught to be sincere and obedient and I try to show that in my work trying to stay up finish the work so that my sincerity is never questioned. I'm always on the side to prove my quality - even though I'm highly underpaid for t…
I'm highly underpaid for the same work. A large part of the justification of using outsourced workers is that they live in an area with a lower cost of living than the company's headquarters, so they can be paid less while still having a good quality of life. So comparing your salary to American workers doesn't really say anything about whether or not you're "underpaid", but it's how your salary compares to others in…
This is a contentious point especially for software engineering jobs as the salary is supposed to be based on performance as there is no obvious benefit to being in the same geographic location.
This is happening now too, as many high paying jobs are coming on India and other parts of the world through remote work. Eventually I believe your cost of living will have no impact on the salary you get.
Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed
#575Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you can't tell whether your employees are working, why do you even have employees? Imagine how much money you'll save.
Most companies I've worked for use "I can see them at their desk" or meeting attendance as the primary measure of "your employees are working".
don't they do work you can see?
Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed
#576Earlier quoted context omitted.
I recently went through a round of interviews for a job where strong communication skills are vital. One interview was just me responding to simulated emails in a shared google doc so the interviewer could see me work through the responses. In addition to witnessing my real time edits, I guess they also had the benefit of a higher level of confidence that the product was my actual work effort.
Dear lord, that sounds horrible. I understand the reasoning, but corresponding with people — especially in formal settings — makes me anxious, and I end up composing and re-composing (and sometimes re-re-composing) a lot of my messages. The end result isn't bad, but if I were being watched and graded in real time I'm pretty sure I'd fail.
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Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed
#577It's not just a thing, for some crooter firms it's a business model. Gonna name and shame here, there was an outfit that was once called Unbounded Solutions, then BrighterBrain. God knows if they're still around or what they're called now. Anyhoo, their whole deal was this: they offered free IT training and job placement, but there was a catch! Oh, boy, was there ever a catch. They would put you through 2 weeks of iO…
Is a contract requiring you to participate in a blatant fraud enforceable?
Legally, probably not; effectively, yes! You need a good attorney to defend yourself against an entity like that, and as a (likely) kid fresh out of college who's hard up for cash (else why would you be singing with Unbounded/BrighterBrain/Enhance IT to begin with?) that's an attorney you can't afford. Your ass is gonna get creamed in court and you may end up paying their legal fees in addition to the original $20,000.
Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed
#578Earlier quoted context omitted.
The phrase "walk softly and carry a big stick" comes to mind. There's no need to go into that interview guns-blazing. Soft-balling the questions at first is likely to do the job. If it doesn't, they can still bring in the heavy artillery later. This approach has worked very well for me in all kinds of adverse situations. Being nice and asking politely has resolved a lot of situations, and I can still fall back to bei…
> walk softly and carry a big stick s/walk/talk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_ideology
Interesting. I now wonder if I heard it wrong my whole life, or if I'm just misremembering. Probably the latter.
Thanks!
Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed
#579Earlier quoted context omitted.
they neglect the reality of rapid corrective and evolutionary iteration towards the desired outcome by each employee I've been in the industry for 20+ years and have done my fair share of live coding interviews. Some of them were horrible. There was one where I had to code on a literal whiteboard while a pair of, uh, let's just call them "people with distinctly non-wonderful personalities" critiqued everything. I did…
> I've also had many that went well. There was a live coding environment, and they allowed for exactly what you said - correction and iteration. They also collaborated with me to an extent. I felt these sorts of interviews were excellent and I did well. They also gave me a great feeling of what it would be like to work with these folks. My best interview experiences were like this. I thought I did well and left those…
Did all of your positive interviews result in rejections?
Some of mine did. That always hurt. But, I mean...
1. A lot of companies follow the "it's better to turn away 10 qualified hires than to make one bad hire" adage
2. Even when I know I'm 100% qualified and would be a good fit, that might be true for 10 other candidates as well so I expect a 90% rejection rate even when things go well.
3. Even when I know I'm 100% qualified and would be a good fit, some other candidate might have some specific domain knowledge (maybe it's fintech, and they've worked in fintech before and I haven't) and it might be a tiebreaker in their favor
4. Even when I know I'm 100% qualified and would be a good fit, some other candidate might have some specific tool/framework/language I don't. If I have experience with 50 tech buzzwords, and so does the other candidate, but 27 of mine overlap with the company's requirements and 29 of theirs do, then that might be a tiebreaker in their favor.
Anyway, being an entrepreneur is better anyway. I'm glad you found success. I miss running my own show. Every day.
Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed
#580I've been a hiring manager for remote positions for a long time. If your recruiting channels are good, most of your candidates are going to be honest and good intentioned. But interview enough people, and you'll start encountering people trying to abuse remote work. They're not interested in contributing to your company. They're only interested in collecting paychecks while they do as little work as possible for as l…
I expect the number of employees taking advantage of companies pales into insignificance when compared to the number of companies taking advantage of employees