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President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

purdueexponent.org

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Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#571

Post by ralmidani »

lazide wrote: post #539
simonh wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like some of the students not only threatened to report him to the Chinese authorities, but told him that they had done so, and he has proof who made these threats and claims. They didn’t try to hide it.

If they have a right to do that, is that harassment? I doubt Purdue (up to now) has any policy saying it’s illegal to report someone to authorities for something they did. Even if those authorities are not popular right now and the thing they did is ok at Perdue but not at home. Is it a ‘dick move’ and offend our sensibilities? Sure. But that doesn’t mean it’s any different than if a bunch of folks from the US were a…

People have been expelled from universities for videos where they used the N-word. I agree with imposing that consequence (unless it was in the distant past and the student has since shown genuine rehabilitation). Reporting someone to a regime which tortures, kills, and harvests the organs of dissenters is orders of magnitudes worse than using a racist slur.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#572

Post by strathmeyer »

lazide wrote: post #539
simonh wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like some of the students not only threatened to report him to the Chinese authorities, but told him that they had done so, and he has proof who made these threats and claims. They didn’t try to hide it.

If they have a right to do that, is that harassment? I doubt Purdue (up to now) has any policy saying it’s illegal to report someone to authorities for something they did. Even if those authorities are not popular right now and the thing they did is ok at Perdue but not at home. Is it a ‘dick move’ and offend our sensibilities? Sure. But that doesn’t mean it’s any different than if a bunch of folks from the US were a…

No post body was provided.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#574

Post by pcmoney »

pphysch wrote: post #350
Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

To be crystal clear, the PRC does not view Tiananmen Square as a purely domestic affair. The extent to which students were radicalized, or signal-boosted by foreign influence is unclear. In that sense, a better comparison would be an event in America's history that had significant foreign interference. For example, 9/11. You can talk objectively about 9/11, sure, just like you can talk objectively about Tiananmen Squ…

They machine gunned and steam rolled their own people by the thousands. Used road equipment to make them into a giant “meat pie” (British ambassador’s description) soaked the sea of mangled corpses in gas and lit it on fire. Then they drove over it repeatedly and washes the body parts and ashes down the drain.

This is not a two sides issue. It doesn’t matter if the students were radicalized etc. the Chinese Govt murdered thousands of people who questioned it. Completely barbaric system of govt but in line with their current use of slave labor and concentration camps.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#575

Post by ivalm »

lazide wrote: post #539
simonh wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like some of the students not only threatened to report him to the Chinese authorities, but told him that they had done so, and he has proof who made these threats and claims. They didn’t try to hide it.

If they have a right to do that, is that harassment? I doubt Purdue (up to now) has any policy saying it’s illegal to report someone to authorities for something they did. Even if those authorities are not popular right now and the thing they did is ok at Perdue but not at home. Is it a ‘dick move’ and offend our sensibilities? Sure. But that doesn’t mean it’s any different than if a bunch of folks from the US were a…

Purdue certainly has policy against harassment. Other students followed and directly harassed, Purdue is not the government so it doesn’t even need to weigh free speech or legality.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#576

Post by necovek »

stickfigure wrote: post #457
yholio wrote: post #198

It's a very weak response from Purdue. Zhihao Kong was bullied and followed around on campus for commemorating the victims of the Tiananmen masacre. He was called a CIA agent by fellow Purdue students and was reported to the Chinese state, who attempted to silence him by forcefully leaning on his family in Hong Kong. The identities of the bullies is well known and the extent of abuse is borderline criminal. There sho…

200 Chinese students have no material financial impact in a body of 35,000 students. I'm inclined to take the statement at face value, and won't be surprised if more actions come as they work out the facts.

200 were enrolled this fall. The article says elsewhere that "Of the over 45,000 students enrolled at campus, 5,196 are of Asian ethnicity", though it's not clear how many of them are from China.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#577

Post by rufus_foreman »

mcv wrote: post #435
DFHippie wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In America, we discuss and debate and try to incrementally learn from our experience. Well, some do. The anti-CRT brouhaha is a reaction against that. Do you suppose they'll be teaching about the Tulsa Race Massacre in Oklahoma high schools in the near future? ETA I think people were taking me the wrong way. I added "anti-" above. The brouhaha is all the people trying to prevent their kids from hearing anything in…

It's clear that some Americans would prefer to hide and forget inconvenient parts of US history in the same way China would prefer to forget Tiananmen Square. Personally I'm strongly on the side of remembering history so we can learn from it and not be doomed to repeat it.

In the same way China would prefer to forget Tiananmen Square?

You are free in America to talk about the Tulsa race massacre as much as you like. You can look it up on the web, you can buy books about it. The government won't threaten you for doing so. It is taught in some schools and universities. In Oklahoma, it is required by law to be taught in schools. Every year at the end of May there are articles published about how no one knows about the Tulsa race massacre.

That is not equivalent to the way China would prefer to forget Tiananmen Square. Those two things are not the same at all. America is not China. Freedom is not slavery.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#578

Post by gaoshan »

sschueller wrote: post #248
Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

I would compare Tiananmen Square with the Tulsa race massacre. How many Americans don't know about it? The time I spend in the US I had the feeling that you have more of a pseudo freedom than actual freedom. Everyone keeps saying how free they are and how great their country is yet you can't even drink an alcoholic beverage on the street without getting arrested. You go to a town festival and the people who want to d…

If you compare how China treats discussion and remembrance of Tiananmen to the how the US treats the Tulsa Race Massacre you will find there is no comparison.

It's true that many in the US don't know about it but many in the US cannot find China on a map so ignorance of the thing might be explainable by something rather more benign than the oppressive and punitive way China handles things.

In recent years information and documentaries on the Tulsa race massacre have been popping up with regularity. The information is easy to find, there are multiple documentaries you have easy access to, the government (in the form of the Tulsa Historical Society) has a very through website exploring what happened, etc. More importantly no one is punished for exploring and discussing this topic. Quite the opposite lately, it is of growing interest to many in the US. Now compare that to China and the Tiananmen Square massacre. As I said at the top, no comparison at all.

I'm not a rah rah "Murican", either. I am very critical of my own country (as I think we all should be.. you can't improve if you don't learn from the bad) and the US has many problems that should be addressed but to compare China and the US on these points is not even a little reasonable, in my opinion. It shows a lack of knowledge of both China (someplace I have lived for years) and the US (where I grew up and currently live). Also, your example of drinking in public is just a generalization and of all the things you could have picked that would be valid arguments, is not a good one. In my community in Ohio you can drink anywhere in the downtown public area, for example and it is several square miles in area.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#579

Post by toss1 »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #546
yholio wrote: post #198

It's a very weak response from Purdue. Zhihao Kong was bullied and followed around on campus for commemorating the victims of the Tiananmen masacre. He was called a CIA agent by fellow Purdue students and was reported to the Chinese state, who attempted to silence him by forcefully leaning on his family in Hong Kong. The identities of the bullies is well known and the extent of abuse is borderline criminal. There sho…

While it doesn't have the immediate satisifaction of a twitter pitchfork mob, I appreciate a measured approach IF there is serious (albeit slow moving) action taken. The last thing we need is an equally impactful response in the opposite direction. He's the head of the school and needs to balance a wide range of perspectives and demands. The context has been set so now I'm watching to see if the actions back it up. I…

>>The last thing we need is an equally impactful response in the opposite direction.

We need a MORE impactful response form this side, but it does not have to be instant.

And you are correct that it has to be carefully investigated, soundly based, and measured for maximum effect.

Ultimately, if you are a "student" here and are participating in state power projection, spying, or abuse of anyone merely participating in protected activities, we need to expel you not only from the school but from the country.

Would China tolerate US "students" on their land spying, attempting to project US power, or abusing others on their land? Not for a second, and we shouldn't either.

Moreover, stronger actions need to be taken to provide consequences to the CCP for attempting this kind of nonsense.

The CCP also needs to stop it from home, because the repeated spy cases of Chinese ppl in academia have already tainted the reputation of ALL Chinese students. I'm sure it is already shutting them out of interesting internships that might also use even CUI (Controlled Unclassified Data) in unrelated parts of the business.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#580

Post by voakbasda »

eric_b wrote: post #421
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should be only one remedy: imediate expulsion of any agent of repression of the Chinese state There should be the same remedy that is provided to any other bully. These are still kids. There is a learning opportunity. If they refuse to learn, yes, expulsion should be in the cards.

There is increasing evidence over the last 2 years that low-consequence "intervention" doesn't really deter future bad behavior. Perhaps there are some specific actions that would have a greater success rate, but a slap on the wrist and a "don't do that again" isn't going to cut it.

I completely agree that slaps on the wrist do no suffice. Expel all 200 and ban Chinese students for five years. Anything less will accomplish nothing.
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