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How to Work Hard

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to Work Hard

#571

Post by ska »

rakejake wrote: post #283
helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

This was exactly my experience except Masters instead of Bachelors. I had this feeling that I mostly coasted during my bachelors, only putting any effort the week before Finals or Unit Tests. I did my Masters in EE from a university renowned for being a tough program. I was up for the challenge, doing exactly what you did: thinking math all the time, feeling like I was wasting time any moment I was not in front of my…

Fwiw CMU undergrad CS has a similar reputation.

There are university programs where you can coast through a degree, and others where doing that will at best leave you at the back of the pack.

It can be fun to be in a program where everyone is pushing hard but it can also be very stressful and not healthy for everyone who tries it. It is possible to live the rest of your life like that, but the vast majority of people I know who have tried it, aren't happy. The exceptions are outliers in several ways.

Re: How to Work Hard

#572

Post by Nursie »

Tycho wrote: post #568
helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

Maybe I’m jumping to conclusions here but there seems to be something obvious that you and others in this thread are overlooking: not all leisure activities are created equal. Some nourish the soul or the body, some are spiritual deserts. Video games are in the latter category. Of course you’re going to feel bad about spending your time on them. But you could instead read a classic novel, play a sport, play some musi…

This is an outdated view, computer games are a cultural vehicle like others. They can even connect you with a rich tapestry of human life.

Re: How to Work Hard

#573

Post by burntoutfire »

prettycolors23 wrote: post #397

I think "natural talent" is sort of a false concept. After time, hard work and practice often turn into talent. When you train hard at something and improve your skills enough, an outside observer will label you as talented. The better your skills, the more talented. You are the only one that knows you didn't start with those skills. I wrestled competitively for 20 years. By the end of my career, people would talk ab…

> I think "natural talent" is sort of a false concept.

You've never heard of child prodigies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_prodigy)? They clearly possess natural talent.

Re: How to Work Hard

#574

Post by ska »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #495
caymanjim wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm closer to retirement age than the beginning of my career. Some of my age peer friends are already retired, and many of them could be if they wanted to. It's not even on the radar for me. I'm a bit envious, as I'd love the freedom to be done for life, and to be able to take or leave work as I please. The flipside is that I've taken a lot of time off along the way. I've taken whole years off between many jobs, I've…

You remind me of a coworker I had four a couple of years. He and his wife were both extremely competent and well-compensated programmers. Their lifestyle was basically "work for two years or so, save up a bunch of money, then quit and wander the world doing whatever they liked until the money ran out, repeat." I've thought about them several times. Some part of me is really, really uncomfortable intentionally living…

> intentionally living off of my savings for a prolonged period

For most people, this is what retirement means, no? So one way to think about it is they are trading off time, and doing some things while they were young and sure to enjoy them.

The flip side is I have known people who never took a 'real break' and worked doggedly until 65 or whatever, then found a few years later health issues constraining what they could do.

Re: How to Work Hard

#575

Post by going_ham »

bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

In fact there is a good video from Verassium [1]. One can't discount luck. There is no such thing as hard work. It's just the feeling of being in flow and whatever one does to make you re-live that flow, it's totally worth it.

Instead of working on hard problems, it's best to prioritize on optimum problem and get the best out of your situation. With optimum problem, I mean the problems that allow you to maximize your living, instead of believing on moonshot dream.

It's okay to dream, but putting expectations on dream is losing touch with reality. Sure in an ideal world, essays like this would be perfect motivation, but you are living in a world ruled by billionaires and plutocrats. So, as long as you get enough share of the pie, I don't think one should pursue the moonshot dream.

Rather invest this time on working on job (whole-hardheartedly) only during office hours, and actually try living a life outside of it. You don't have to be a superstar to live a life because humans have already lived for so long.

Stop believing these bullshit VC ideas. The real essence of this essay is understanding the flow and noticing the events that triggers flow. [2]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LopI4YeC4I&t=12s

[2] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/66354. Flow

Re: How to Work Hard

#576

Post by JGM_io »

I'm a bit wary of this essay even though I'm a fan of PG.

With neoliberal rhetoric like this:

  "Like most little kids, I enjoyed the feeling of achievement when I learned or did something new. As I grew older, this morphed into a feeling of disgust when I wasn't achieving anything."
I wonder if we're not forgetting to just chill. Can he just chill?

I dunno, something that's been on my mind

Re: How to Work Hard

#577

Post by heavenlyblue »

devchix wrote: post #565
nonbirithm wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same. I can hardly sit through an entire two-hour movie or play a video game without feeling like I should be doing something else. I cannot feel good about myself if I cannot sense that I'm making progress learning a skill, and am stuck for hours looking down at a blank page as a result. But what's dangerous for me is that this alarm system does not trigger consistently. I might spend too much time on HN,…

> I can hardly sit through an entire two-hour movie or play a video game without feeling like I should be doing something else. One summer we rented a beach house, I had delusions of lazing on the beach under a big umbrella, drinks, books, dogs, netflix, music, a endless orgy of entertainment and sunny weather. I went stir-crazy in about half a day, there's only so much lazing about I can do, after 2 movies I thought…

Why sitting through a movie is a bad thing? Have you tried watching some “harder” movies? Maybe you’re just bored with the specific movies you are watching. I for example know that I have a very specific love for sci-fi genre; but unfortunately a lot of sci-fi is basically trash with good CGI and I can’t help myself but think that I am wasting my time when I watch stuff in that comfort zone.

However there’s a lot to film that is quite hard to watch. Maybe of the recents Almodovar comes to my mind. It’s engaging and very unique.

Re: How to Work Hard

#578

Post by johnwheeler »

dragonwriter wrote: post #342
johnwheeler wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, people tend to adopt a personal narrative that maximizes their own moral status Exactly, that's what I'm saying about rationalizing. The only thing those who've yet to succeed lack is the vantage point of the successful. So I'd argue the successful are operating with an information advantage.

> The only thing those who've yet to succeed lack is the vantage point of the successful. No, that's a pre-Enlightment (or maybe postmodernist, it can be hard to tell the difference at times) attitude. What both most who have succeeded and most who have not succeeded lack who don’t actively seek it out is the perspective of structured, broad information gathering, analysis, and hypothesis testing beyond self-justifyi…

touché

Re: How to Work Hard

#579

Post by zdbrandon »

mgh2 wrote: post #559

> There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort. There is one essential factor that if someone does not have, everything else mentioned here does not matter: luck or provision (scientifically speaking, luck does not exist). Every entrepreneur knows that no matter how hard they work, at the end of the day if they are not in the right place, at the right time, with the right people, s…

Would it have soothed you if he began the article with: “Though the advice in this article is necessary, it alone is not sufficient to achieve success. Luck also plays a large factor. You need both. You will also need to obtain financial leverage. Hard work at McDonald’s is not the type that this article addresses.”? It seems unnecessary to me, particularly because he’s already written articles on these subjects. [1] [2]

Also, as another person that doesn’t believe in free will, I find it interesting that you thought it necessary to critique the way PG handled this subject matter, as if he had any choice.

But then again, neither did you.

Edit, forgot to link the articles. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html [2] http://www.paulgraham.com/really.html

Re: How to Work Hard

#580

Post by burntoutfire »

_Nat_ wrote: post #202
sidlls wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would mean putting effort ("working hard") at understanding something outside one's own thought bubble. PG's essays are exercises in narcissism and confirmation bias: they're the last place to go to for the kind of wisdom you suggest.

Admittedly I'm a puzzled by the quality-level of these posts. A lot of stuff, like the lack of formatting and HTTPS, give off an antique feel, almost like a signal that they're not meant to be taken seriously. Ditto for the over-the-top arrogant tone and relatively sparse content. I might be off-base on this, but I sometimes wonder if these articles aren't like a honey-pot for non-serious YCombinator applicants. Like…

> A lot of stuff, like the lack of formatting and HTTPS

What's the point of HTTPS for a static website which doesn't convey any secrets? (that's a genuine question, I'm not a web expert).

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