What it's like to be cancelled • Hacker News Board

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#571

Post by kstrauser » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #570

koheripbal wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were these professional teams, or high school/college/food service jobs?

I went to work in tech right after high school; I've never worked a food service job.

I’m saddened by the pushback against the notion of firing assholes. There are some people I just did not want to work with, and on a few occasions management came to the same conclusion.

And I wouldn’t want to work for a company that wouldn’t fire people who were acting terribly in public. Who wants to sit next to someone awful all day?

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#572

Post by overgard » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

SassyGrapefruit wrote: post #564

overgard wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well so what's your point, this guy is irredeemable and should never be able to get his life back? At what point is the bloodlust sated and sufficient justice is served?

Whether or not the author is "redeemable" is irrelevant. At its core sexual misconduct is prioritizing one's own needs/desires and using someone else as an object to achieve them. It's one of the highest acts of self centeredness and it happens at someone else's expense. I don't see how writing an article about how the author's sexual misconduct has impacted him isn't a continuation of the same problem mentality. It…

I didn't see this as asking for anything. The blog post is both instructional, ie here's what happens, and an explanation. I just don't see how this notion that a person should be punished forever is helpful to anyone. He's paid a hefty price why continue to pile on? Also just because he created victims doesn't mean he himself isn't also a victim. Do you really think he deserved death threats? Do you think it was ok that overzealous people (such as a lot of the people in this thread) thought it was ok to terrorize his wife as well?

Many people convicted of actual felonies don't face consequences like this. This guy has been convicted of... nothing illegal apparently?

For some reason on an individual level people are willing to forgive someone for their past transgressions, but as soon as it goes to a public forum everyone needs to talk about how this person should be vilified forever to signal what a great person they personally are. To twitter mobs, any transgression against a protected group is grounds for permanent ostracism, even if the transgression is pretty mild by societies standards. I don't think we should be encouraging mob justice. 1000/1000 times in human history mob justice has always gone way too far.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#573

Post by rkk3 » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #569

rkk3 wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you don't see Noah's reply because he deleted that tweet? Several times above, I have included a link [1] with both a screenshot and description which in no way indicate that... He was accused of being a known groper but that was not a behavior he explicitly apologized for. [1] https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...

No, I mean deleted the reply tweet that you see in this screenshot: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbCzIRoU0AcR8Qk?format=jpg&name=... This is what tptacek was referring to when he said that he used this apology in response to groping allegations. It's hard to tell what's going on in twitter threads though. Twitter sucks at archiving this kind of info.

Yes that is the same tweet referenced above. They accused him of multiple things such as "groping female devs", "trying to pour drinks down the throat" of a drunk girl who bit his face. He apologized for SIC "shitty, creepy" behavior, but he never explicitly apologized for groping & wasn't accused of groping anyone specifically. I don't see how any of that is inconsistent with the author saying above that he didn't grope anyone.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#574

Post by rkk3 » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

underseacables wrote: post #484

dcow wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive and possibly our governments for not taking action to insulate society against the impacts of internet mobs on peoples’ pursuit of happiness. The fact that 100 people on Twitter can get somebody fired just by calling them a rapist with absolutely no proof is a social/societal failure. I highly suspect ending this person’s contracts cost the companies more mone…

This is one of those rare instances I would say there should be a law that prevents a company from firing an employee for something they did not attached to their work.

> something they did not attached to their work.

Except it was very much attached to his work since this was happening at industry events...

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#575

Post by foldr » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

rkk3 wrote: post #573

foldr wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I mean deleted the reply tweet that you see in this screenshot: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbCzIRoU0AcR8Qk?format=jpg&name=... This is what tptacek was referring to when he said that he used this apology in response to groping allegations. It's hard to tell what's going on in twitter threads though. Twitter sucks at archiving this kind of info.

Yes that is the same tweet referenced above. They accused him of multiple things such as "groping female devs", "trying to pour drinks down the throat" of a drunk girl who bit his face. He apologized for SIC "shitty, creepy" behavior, but he never explicitly apologized for groping & wasn't accused of groping anyone specifically. I don't see how any of that is inconsistent with the author saying above that he didn't g…

I was just responding to your statmeent that Noah didn’t ‘didn't directly reply’ to the groping allegations. As far as I can tell, he did, as you can see in the screenshot.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#576

Post by rkk3 » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 3:51 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #274

PaulKeeble wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that happens if you voice your opinion in the opposite direction of an internet mob is you get piled on too. Anyone who has been on the internet must have experienced this more than once. Introducing some facts or measure (which is hard with twitters very tiny character limit that squashes nuance and debate) in a response is just the same thing. The internet mob is a mob and acts like a mob and its best to get ou…

You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive and possibly our governments for not taking action to insulate society against the impacts of internet mobs on peoples’ pursuit of happiness. The fact that 100 people on Twitter can get somebody fired just by calling them a rapist with absolutely no proof is a social/societal failure. I highly suspect ending this person’s contracts cost the companies more mone…

> You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive

Have you read his original published written apology [1]? I can't think of a company that would want to keep someone who in their own words was a "Shitty, Creepy, Sexual Predator" at recent work & industry events.

[1] https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#577

Post by dcow » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

rkk3 wrote: post #576

dcow wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive and possibly our governments for not taking action to insulate society against the impacts of internet mobs on peoples’ pursuit of happiness. The fact that 100 people on Twitter can get somebody fired just by calling them a rapist with absolutely no proof is a social/societal failure. I highly suspect ending this person’s contracts cost the companies more mone…

> You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive Have you read his original published written apology [1]? I can't think of a company that would want to keep someone who in their own words was a "Shitty, Creepy, Sexual Predator" at recent work & industry events. [1] https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...

Maybe he is too charitable in his assessment, but the reality is the rapist allegations are not true (entirely mob escalated nonsense) and from what I can gather largely the reason he was "canceled". I suspect the shitty creepy sexual predator label is simply the author internalizing the mobs reaction. There's a very very fine line between "creepy" and "has game" and it usually comes down to how attractive you are which moulds how other people happen to perceive your advances.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#578

Post by dcow » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

thu2111 wrote: post #558

dcow wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive and possibly our governments for not taking action to insulate society against the impacts of internet mobs on peoples’ pursuit of happiness. The fact that 100 people on Twitter can get somebody fired just by calling them a rapist with absolutely no proof is a social/societal failure. I highly suspect ending this person’s contracts cost the companies more mone…

To do that you'd need to roll back corporate feminism. The reason this guy got cancelled is the feminist culture of "always believe the victim" which is basically the same as "always believe an accusation". Anyone who points out that women can and do lie about being raped i.e. an accusation is not automatically true, is immediately trashed by feminists as a woman hater, and they make it quite clear that it's a "pick…

> so you're really asking for a roll back of identity politics as a whole. Good luck with that. If you figure it out let us know.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss and try to push back. But yeah I feel the hopelessness when I get in a jaded mood too. My friend has a hypothesis that since the 3rd wave has taken hold, we'll only see a swing back once the tactics start negatively affecting the progenitors of the rhetoric, which it eventually will because the rhetoric is not internally consistent.

What gives me a sliver of hope is that people are talking about the negative impacts and how irrational the situation is now with a seriousness and subtle urgency that never used to exist. 10 years ago when I had these conversations it was all hypothetical "that will never happen cmon don't be such a bigot you kinda sound like you're victim blaming" type of responses. How quickly it's become "shit that happened uh oh.. um..".

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#579

Post by rkk3 » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #577

rkk3 wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive Have you read his original published written apology [1]? I can't think of a company that would want to keep someone who in their own words was a "Shitty, Creepy, Sexual Predator" at recent work & industry events. [1] https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...

Maybe he is too charitable in his assessment, but the reality is the rapist allegations are not true (entirely mob escalated nonsense) and from what I can gather largely the reason he was "canceled". I suspect the shitty creepy sexual predator label is simply the author internalizing the mobs reaction. There's a very very fine line between "creepy" and "has game" and it usually comes down to how attractive you are wh…

> but the reality is the rapist allegations are not true

Wizards didn't fire him for being a rapist[1]. It's great he isn't a rapist! But why should his company ignore that he publicly apologized for doing sexually inappropriate things at work events?

[1] https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/statement... "Noah Bradley, engaged in inappropriate sexual conduct with members of the Magic and artist community."

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#580

Post by rkk3 » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #577

rkk3 wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive Have you read his original published written apology [1]? I can't think of a company that would want to keep someone who in their own words was a "Shitty, Creepy, Sexual Predator" at recent work & industry events. [1] https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...

Maybe he is too charitable in his assessment, but the reality is the rapist allegations are not true (entirely mob escalated nonsense) and from what I can gather largely the reason he was "canceled". I suspect the shitty creepy sexual predator label is simply the author internalizing the mobs reaction. There's a very very fine line between "creepy" and "has game" and it usually comes down to how attractive you are wh…

>There's a very very fine line between "creepy" and "has game" and it usually comes down to how attractive you are which moulds how other people happen to perceive your advances.

Yes, but not sure why that matters. The guy has a 6-pack does that change anything for you? https://twitter.com/noahbradley/status/1245397083529543680/p...