Live data from Hacker News

Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

apple.com

571–580 of 717 posts

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#571
I enjoy actual 5.1 music which was briefly a thing in the 200s. There are a few albums recorded this way -- Tipper's Surrounded, Opeth, one or two Mastodon, a Muse album or two.

I've seen a lot of BS marketing stuff with stereo + some effects being labelled as 5.1 or 7.1.

What is Dolby Atmos? I went to https://www.dolby.com/technologies/dolby-atmos/ but it doesn't really tell you. In my dreams it is music recorded with surround channels and then an technology that plays it back through two speakers using an IMU so you can turn your head and hear different stuff. In reality, it's probably a BS effect... somebody, please reply if you actually know. (Not guess, actually know. Futile, I know -- I'm going to get lots of guesses as replies because that's what always happens on HN.)

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#574

For anyone here who is interested in the hi-fi audio experience and may be getting caught up in the debate over higher sampling rates and bit-depths, I'd like to suggest that any improvement Apple's hi-res audio is going to offer in sonic quality is nothing compared to the benefits of treating the acoustics in your listening space. Or conversely the destructive effects of NOT treating your room. In an untreated room,…

My "listening space" seldom exceeds an inch from my head. Either AirPods Pro or Sennheisers right in/on my ears. That's going to be the target audience of the majority of these changes.

I choose 'phones because my music taste diverges too much from my wife's to make open air play an option, if I want to maintain peace.

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#575

I enjoy actual 5.1 music which was briefly a thing in the 200s. There are a few albums recorded this way -- Tipper's Surrounded, Opeth, one or two Mastodon, a Muse album or two. I've seen a lot of BS marketing stuff with stereo + some effects being labelled as 5.1 or 7.1. What is Dolby Atmos? I went to https://www.dolby.com/technologies/dolby-atmos/ but it doesn't really tell you. In my dreams it is music recorded wi…

Here’s how I understand Atmos.

A long time ago, surround was based on how the wires were hooked up, so first we had 2 channels, then 2.1, 5.1, etc. So your recording might have a left, right, rear channel, but the channels had to be globally defined and premixed. Your audio file would say “play A out of the speaker, B out the right speaker.”

Atmos is redoing that for digital, so you can say that a channel or sound is positioned at a point in space, and your receiver or device figures out which speakers to use to present it. Your audio file says “play A 10’ left of the listener, play B 10’ right of the user.”

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is not possible to say it is indistinguishable for all samples, present and future. Are there likely to be real-world cases where this happens - and the effect is detrimental enough to actually matter to anyone? Surely we're debating "when is it good enough for anyone sane and reasonable?" not "when could a hypothetical oracle be fooled 100%"?

I've commented in the past about a song that is annoyingly altered in 320k MP3: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

That's actually quite interesting.

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#577
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple can add feature after feature, but if Music continues to [random issue most people have never encountered], it's close to useless. I've started to feel like "Apple Music as a music library" was really only intended as a bridge for people like you and me that were reluctant to abandon their obsessively curated their music library for the brave new world of streaming music. After a few years of it my listening…

I abandoned my music library after I went to Apple Music. But 5 years later I'm going back. The licensing issues and split albums OP mentioned have basically annoyed the hell out of me. Quite a lot of old music from my childhood is basically gone for good from Apple Music/Spotify. I have a smart playlist which basically lists all tracks which are no longer available on Apple Music and it has a 7 day playtime. Quite a…

> I abandoned my music library after I went to Apple Music. But 5 years later I'm going back.

How do you deal with the cost? I pay $18/month for Apple Music (Family) and I can listen to thousands of tracks in a single day if I wanted to. That same experience would cost me thousands of dollars up front to kick start it.

This also isn't to mention the fact that not all music is available to buy legally online. Dimmu Borgir, for example, use Nuclear Blast and I struggle to find retailers online that can sell me MP3s outside of iTunes. I don't want to have to deal with (read: rip) CDs and vinyl is a joke at 3x the price (not to mention simply being a dead format.)

So how are you going to curate a library, legally, so that the artist is supported, assuming you have at least 20-30 artists you like.

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#578

Apple can add feature after feature, but if Music continues to split albums without warning, it's close to useless. I can't curate a music library when I can't rely on my music not being jumbled around. Dropping music for licensing issues is one thing, but messing with metadata is beyond frustrating. For arbitrary reasons, Apple Music will: remove songs from albums and re-add them to your library as the "single" or "…

How do you deal with the cost of building a library of legal music? I pay $18/month for Apple Music (Family) and I can listen to thousands of tracks in a single day if I wanted to. That same experience would cost me thousands of dollars up front to kick start it.

This also isn't to mention the fact that not all music is available to buy legally online. Dimmu Borgir, for example, use Nuclear Blast and I struggle to find retailers online that can sell me MP3s outside of iTunes. I don't want to have to deal with (read: rip) CDs and vinyl is a joke at 3x the price (not to mention simply being a dead format.)

So how are you going to curate a library, legally, so that the artist is supported, assuming you have at least 20-30 artists you like.

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#579
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be true about popular music, because this is how we came to know this style of music - live performances (without proper sound engineering) sound worse. It is completely the opposite for classical music. There's still no way to replicate the sound quality of being close to an orchestra.

>There's still no way to replicate the sound quality of being close to an orchestra. That's why I always tend to bail out of audiophile discussion but I'll bite: why? What's so special about the soundwaves going into your ears when you sit close to an orchestra that couldn't be reproduced with good audio equipment? If you're talking about the experience itself of siting next to performers then I wholeheartedly agree,…

> What's so special about the soundwaves going into your ears

tongue in cheek answer: nothing. It's your ears that are special.

Less tongue in cheek, while we have got pretty good at making microphones, they don't behave anything like human audio system; this makes it really difficult to reproduce what we experience when generated a different way (e.g. multichannel playback).

There is nothing "special" about classical music here either, it's just got a lot of complexity (from multiple instruments, and room dynamics) and dynamic range.

I see your point: if we could a) design microphones that capture everything going by them in a neutral way and b) design speakers that precisely reproduce everything they are sent in a neutral way, and c) set up a room to reproduce things in a neutral way for your particular position ... then this would work. We can't actually do any of those things.

Re: Apple Music Announces Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

#580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course not [you just need individual head related transfer functions for everyone and a fast DSP] I agree that it is probably possible in theory, but aren't we talking about actual equipment and recordings that people can buy?

You can buy it; the keyword is 'binaural' recording/headphones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording

Except this is a long way yet from what the GP was describing, although it is an attempt in that direction.
Post reply on HN