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Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

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Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AOL pioneered this. And became extremely wealthy for it. Unfortunately it works

what are AOL doing these days?

The execs cashed out after taking advantage of their user. Milked it for everything it was worth, then exited with a sale to Verizon when it was clear it was worthless (actually by then I'd be surprised if any of the original team was still there -- for example Ray Oglethorp left in 2002).

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#572
post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few details with that: Does the sticker have to show all taxes or just the sales tax/GST/VAT? I know that pretty much every country in the world has an alcohol tax that is applied to things like wine. So should the sticker also include that? In the USA they have a particular hatred of making tax easier to pay. There's a political affiliation whose goal is to make filing a tax return harder and more compli…

> In the USA they have a particular hatred of making tax easier to pay. There's a political affiliation whose goal is to make filing a tax return harder and more complicated to do so that people will complain more about it and hate the process. So that has created the tax return filing industry and associated lobby groups. So having sales tax need to be applied on top fits within this world view. Which political affi…

There's been a few articles here on HN relating to free filing and automatic returns and how the tax filing industry is fighting it.

One name that popped up after a quick search inside a long article was Grover Norquist. From his Wikipedia entry he is part of a political association which wants to prevent any rise in taxes. From another article I read long ago it was mentioned that this includes preventing automatic filing since the government could introduce new taxes without people knowing.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#573
post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the USA they have a particular hatred of making tax easier to pay. There's a political affiliation whose goal is to make filing a tax return harder and more complicated to do so that people will complain more about it and hate the process. So that has created the tax return filing industry and associated lobby groups. So having sales tax need to be applied on top fits within this world view. Which political affi…

There's been a few articles here on HN relating to free filing and automatic returns and how the tax filing industry is fighting it. One name that popped up after a quick search inside a long article was Grover Norquist. From his Wikipedia entry he is part of a political association which wants to prevent any rise in taxes. From another article I read long ago it was mentioned that this includes preventing automatic…

Ah so it's not actually this:

> In the USA they have a particular hatred of making tax easier to pay. There's a political affiliation whose goal is to make filing a tax return harder and more complicated to do so that people will complain more about it and hate the process. So that has created the tax return filing industry and associated lobby groups. So having sales tax need to be applied on top fits within this world view.

It's actually this:

> since the government could introduce new taxes without people knowing

Along with increasing gov size, increasing gov expense, and destroying another industry.

I'm all for increased competition in tax filing software, and you're starting to see open source competition here as well. But spreading opinion as fact, and in this case in particularly, is called "misinformation" or "fake news"

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#574
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's illegal to put on the price the customer is actually going to pay? My search attempt failed ("illegal to put price with VAT" neither g nor ddg liked it), please tell me more!

In the US, sales tax rates vary by state, county and even city. Some states have no sales tax. It would be impossible to advertise a price for a product when it would be so many different numbers depending on where you are. For example, if a big grocery store chain wants to advertise the price of a 6-pack of Coke, do they list 20 different prices or do they eat the difference in taxes and make the end price the same?

Not saying that this will work in US, but India is also like US, federation of states, with federal tax, state tax, city tax all over the spectrum over the length & breadth of country. All advertisements of car, butter, biscuits, house, anything which can be priced over TV/Media advertises its MRP (maximum Retail Price), which is also printed on product itself too. Retailer use stickers on shelf or on product itself to tell what is the actual price, which by law should not be more that its MRP. The taxes along the route, physically & supplier/trader wise affects the price, but it is illegal for anybody retailer to sell anything more that its printed MRP.

Yes, same packet of potato chips costs R20 at capital R25 at hill stations (but its MRP shows R25).

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#575
post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want my employer to know jack and shit about what I do outside of work hours. Personal info does not belong on corp resources. That includes personal calendar data on corp Outlook/Goog's/etc. That means not using corp network to surf personal social media, shopping on amazon, etc. I would very much encourage you to really look into this unwise practice. It's not a matter of if, but when, this will come to hau…

It always amazes me how much info people are willing to turn over to other entities that have no business with it. My favorite are co-workers who allow mobile device management profiles on their personal phones so they don't have to carry around a separate work phone. No way in hell would I ever agree to that! Stupidity for convenience :p

If I don't have to open up a work laptop to check an email or copy a couple of spreadsheet cells into a reply, and can spend more time with family, I wouldn't call that stupid. Many companies aren't in a position to hand out fully-managed company phones and will just shrug you off.

MDM may be as light as a single app with its own policies, or something as heavy as device configuration (for VPN, remote wipe, etc). Containerised app groups seem to be a good balance.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind mind paying for good tools/software when you are making good use of it. I guess my problem is with these subscription models where your software evaporates when you stop paying. That's rough. As a simple example, I couldn't imagine being on that kind of a model with Excel. We have tools built on Excel covering disciplines from electrical, mechanical, software, optical and acoustics engineering dating bac…

We'd be happy paying per project, but if course The Mathworks knows that would bring less revenue. We've actually had a large effort to move towards python which has been successful in preventing unnecessary MATLAB. Holding the cancer at bay. Re Excel, they are making offline installs increasingly difficult and expensive, and yet their online version can't do many things (like, Solver doesn't exist, you have to licen…

> Re Excel, they are making offline installs increasingly difficult and expensive, and yet their online version can't do many things

Yes. I had an ugly experience with a customer who insisted on using the Excel online version. It was a mess.

We are trying to avoid creating tools using Excel any more. Same as you with MATLAB, we are shifting as much as possible to Python. We are using an internal Django site to collect all the tools as apps when it makes sense. In some cases it's stuff that connects to laboratory equipment to take measurements, etc. and it might not make sense to tie it to Django.

That said, you'd be surprised the kinds of things we've contorted Django into doing. We built a robotic test and manufacturing system that runs from Django. It was very interesting to figure out how to use the database for journaling and to maintain state. The last thing you want on a system like that is for the machine to lose state for whatever reason. It worked really well. Not sure I'd recommend it. I wanted to see if we could standardize on Django for the UI and data management on custom automation solutions. No verdict yet.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#577
I encountered this with Adobe Acrobat DC, but managed to get out without paying the cancellation fee.

I contacted customer support and asked to upgrade to a more expensive SMB plan for a different but related product (Adobe Sign). I also demanded the first 14 days free, as that product advertizes a 14 day trial.

As I suspected, they could not make this complex change with their internal tools, so they offered to cancel Acrobat DC for me so I could sign up directly for the trial of the more expensive product.

As it happens, I changed my mind after the cancellation was completed. ;-)

If they had been able to do what I asked, I might have requested a change in billing country into or out of the EU or US - this is often complex for tax reasons. If their tools are capable of everything I could think of, I might still change my mind around the final confirmation stage.

Here is the pricing page: - https://acrobat.adobe.com/us/en/acrobat/pricing.html?promoid...

It does mention "Requires annual commitment.", but in a vastly less noticeable style than "Best value".

(Legal theorizing, IANAL and all that)

Contract law requires a "meeting of the minds". Ordinarily, a written contract is evidence of where exactly the minds met - but there are exceptions. For instance, website ToS are not really enforceable. ("By using this website, you agree to sell me your house for $1?".)

I would argue that for most people buying Adobe products with an easily missed cancellation fee, there is no meeting of the minds and the contract should not be valid.

A good test for this might be to ask 100 randomly selected customers about the terms of the contract. If a majority aren't aware, it is reasonable to conclude that this information isn't conveyed adequately and that part of the contract should not be enforceable. I've never heard of anything like this happening in practice, though.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#578

I got hit with this a few years back. I signed up for Ps CC for a month (I thought) to create an anniversary gift for my wife. I used it ONCE. Tried to cancel and they told me I had in fact signed up for a year, and that if I didn't cancel now, they'd give me two months free. I didn't want it at all! Anyway, I sucked it up, got on with the remainder of the year, because they wouldn't let me put the cancellation in ea…

Sounds like Adobe hired some executives from the cable TV or satellite TV industry, where the fine print on some packages locks you into 24 or 36 month contract terms. They know exactly how to do it with the minimum legal amount of notice to the customer when signing up, and how to write the terms of service for acceptance to make it ironclad. Same with 2-3 year terms on cellular carriers with a "free $0!" new samsun…

What's wrong with that? If they are giving you 500+$ worth of stuff for you to sign on to a contract, I'm sure they are going to protect themselves from people just signing on to get free stuff and immediately canceling.

If you sign a 2-3 year contract and want to break it before it ends, there will always be some kind of penalty.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#579
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, if someone presents me with two options: - Annual plan, paid monthly: $50 / month - Monthly plan: $75 / month Then of course there is going to be a catch to the first one. I cannot imagine anyone being so naive they’d just assume both plans are the same aside from the price...

This comment is so tone deaf. Tons of people will be so naive as to either not read closely, or just not know that the cheaper one comes with a catch.

Looking at the Adobe website, you can easily get in touch with sales reps if you have any questions about the products. These are products that cost hundreds of dollars per year and are marketed as tools for professionals. If you fly through without reading anything, or if you don't understand and don't ask for help... I'm not sure what you expect people to do.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#580

I got hit with this a few years back. I signed up for Ps CC for a month (I thought) to create an anniversary gift for my wife. I used it ONCE. Tried to cancel and they told me I had in fact signed up for a year, and that if I didn't cancel now, they'd give me two months free. I didn't want it at all! Anyway, I sucked it up, got on with the remainder of the year, because they wouldn't let me put the cancellation in ea…

If you're in Australia, I've submitted a case to ACCC. If you're an Australian reading this - do the same, you'll get your refund.
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