Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#571

Post by wing-_-nuts » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #540

chlodwig wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't we have universal daycare / preK? How about increasing the tax credit that goes to all parent, regardless of they choose to do childcare? Maybe for some parents that would be enough that one parent could quit their job and finally have the joy of spending more of their time with their own kid. I don't see why we should subsidize institutional childcare over other forms of caring for the very young.

as a parent I think parents should have to pay more taxes, and it should go up per child.

If this is based off of environmental concerns, I'd much rather we implement a carbon tax. Target the thing you wish to reduce.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#572

Post by jl2718 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

blank_fan_pill wrote: post #65

I recognize that my experience is probably not average - but at my high school (2004-2008 US public school) the advanced/AP classes were 80%-90% female. This was true for all subjects, the student government, and the academic after school activities. Also anecdotal - but I've seen a lot of the boys who were academically behind seem to get their shit together ~3-5 years after graduating and ended up going to college,…

Raising animals has made me think a lot about maturation. Our babies are helpless and incompetent longer than any other species on earth. Compare a human to a dog at 3 months and clearly the dog is smarter and more capable. Slower maturation often ends up as better total cognitive adaptation as an adult. For some reason, boys are hormonally behind by about 4 years now, also with significant differences between haplotypes. But I see same thing over and over, the fast ones stall and the slow ones just keep growing in their area of interest. This is true even in college students. If I had to bet on one of my students for the Turing award, it would be my worst at the time, already quite famous. It’s a little upsetting for me because I was more on the precocious side, and this observation has greatly humbled me. Specifically because I think you’re right; catching up is probably rare for institutional reasons, and maybe half the people turning wrenches would be much better than me at whatever I’m feeling challenged by. Maybe we have it all wrong, and we should be looking for the slowest learners, as in, the ones that have to take in everything and won’t accept anything until it’s 100%.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#573

Post by jl2718 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

_-david-_ wrote: post #438

audunw wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But some girls are like boys, and some boys are like girls in this regard. Gender differences fall on a spectrum.

No matter what we do some people will not have an ideal education. I think this will maximize the education that works for the most kids. The only way we can actually have an ideal education would be to have 1 teacher per student. That is not really practical.

Or let them choose. See “Summerhill”.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#574

Post by red02 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

alentist wrote: post #300

filmgirlcw wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd assume most school administrators are women. At least in the United States, this isn’t at all true. A disproportionate number of administrators (especially when adjusted for the normal male/female teacher breakdown) are male. There have also been many studies that show that teachers call on boys more, praised them more (they acknowledge girls, praise boys), and talk with them more. So your assumptions are compl…

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-31751672 Teachers are more lenient in their marking of girls' schoolwork, according to an international study. An OECD report on gender in education, across more than 60 countries, found that girls receive higher marks compared with boys of the same ability. When it comes to teachers' marking, the study says there is a consistent pattern of girls' work being "marked up".

If it were the opposite they would call it systemic sexism =p

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#575

Post by remir » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

hn8788 wrote: post #83

firefoxd wrote: post #37

This is anecdotal but I'm sure many people are seen this increasingly. In the past 10 years on the job, I'm seeing more guys make jokes about how stupid they are. Every time they make a single mistake they say "oh my God, if my head wasn't attached to my shoulders..." Then it becomes a competition of who has done the dumbest thing. I know it's just being playful, but you rarely see the opposite. Turn the tables, I wa…

That's even a common trope in sitcoms. The husband is a loveable but bumbling idiot, while his wife is the voice of reason who frequently needs to save him from his own bad decisions. I wonder if the shows are imitating life, or the other way around. My wife did her master's thesis on discrimination based on communication, and in her research she found a study showing that the constant depiction of people with a sout…

This has been going on for a while in advertising as well.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#576

Post by hc-taway » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

skinkestek wrote: post #557

hc-taway wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effect of amphetamines on kids with ADHD is to improve school performance. The effect of amphetamines on kids without ADHD is to improve school performance. The effect of amphetamines on kids without ADHD but who've been diagnosed with ADHD because they're not getting enough exercise is... to improve school performance.

The effect of stimulants on the brain is to stimulate it. For those who need it it makes mind-numbingly boring stuff such as homework (as opposed to reading history books or creating elaborate formulas etc etc) less painful. I don't know about you but I personally have seen some examples that have gotten significantly improved lives because of it. If you don't know this stuff first hand, please refrain from making br…

> If you don't know this stuff first hand, please refrain from making broad statements about it.

Unless all the kids illegally buying ADHD meds to do better in school when they have not been diagnosed with ADHD (and adults doing the same, for that matter, to do better at work) are doing that for no reason, I'm pretty sure I'm correct that amphetamines improve performance for most everyone, and that distinguishing between ADHD-and-improved-on-meds and not-ADHD-and-improved-on-meds is not trivial.

I was replying to a post that read:

> If they're on stims in particular, and the meds actually improve their behavior, then the cause most likely isn't insufficient PE time.

I object to that being proof of much other than amphetamines making most people perform better in school, without commenting on whether ADHD is a "real" thing (I'm not even sure what it would even mean for it not to be "real", given the state of our understanding and diagnosis of mental disorders). "We gave the kid amphetamines and they improved, must have had ADHD" is dangerously misguided.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#577

Post by hc-taway » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #484

hc-taway wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effect of amphetamines on kids with ADHD is to improve school performance. The effect of amphetamines on kids without ADHD is to improve school performance. The effect of amphetamines on kids without ADHD but who've been diagnosed with ADHD because they're not getting enough exercise is... to improve school performance.

Amphetamines aren't magic. There are qualitative differences in response between people with and without ADHD, that manifest across the board, not just on few school metrics - and a psychiatrist will be able to see them. The "young unruly boys without enough PE" is a well-known trope, and modern school is very much kid torture - but I'm not willing to say yet that we're medicating children too much, when the world is…

> There are qualitative differences in response between people with and without ADHD, that manifest across the board, not just on few school metrics - and a psychiatrist will be able to see them.

I was under the impression that this "it works differently on people with ADHD" thing was essentially a pleasant myth. If you've got solid citations that stimulants do somehow work differently on people with ADHD I'd be interested in reading them. My understanding was that the effect is broadly similar, with the only meaningful distinction being that ADHD-diagnosed individuals have been judged as needing those effects, and others have not.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#578

Post by whimsicalism » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

skinkestek wrote: post #560

whimsicalism wrote: post #317

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Don't know why the pretty obvious explanation for why this sort of thing is common is downvoted. Even if you're some weirdo who thinks there is no gender discrimination in the workplace, you can't deny that many women at least perceive there to be gender discrimination, and one of the tips passed around is to stop self-deprecating yourself in front of your colleagues.

> Even if you're some weirdo who thinks there is no gender discrimination in the workplace, you can't deny that many women at least perceive there to be gender discrimination, Sample size of one, but if my company has the option to hire a male or a female engineer which are known to have the exact same skillset and experience I expect them to choose the female one 10/10 times: - hiring the man gets the job done - hir…

This isn't substantively responsive to my comment, about the perception of gender discrimination.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#579

Post by bopbeepboop » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

berdario wrote: post #474

throwgender123 wrote: post #212

I've noticed throughout my life that negative outcomes that primarily affect females (math test scores, wage gap, etc) are Huge Problems That Demand Immediate Action, and negative outcomes that primarily affect males (language test scores, life expectancy gap) are just kind of how it is. I'm not bitching about it or pushing an agenda, but it's not subtle.

Maybe? the wage gap has clear reasons (mens' jobs are better paid, women get promoted less) and thus clear solutions (stop discriminating against women at hiring/promotion time, or improve women's retention thus allowing them to stick in a job for longer, improving their chances at a promotion), even if these solutions are easier said than done. the life expectancy gap instead... what are the reasons? I suspect that…

Your explanation of the wage gap is wrong.

The supposed wage gap is actually a reflection of the effort gap (men work substantially more) and death gap (men die at work 10x as often, in the US).

Feminists just want equal pay for unequal contribution.

The wage gap would disappear if women closed the effort and death gaps.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#580

Post by waterheater » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

darkhorse13 wrote: post #523

waterheater wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PC or not, academic literature supports your views. http://psych2.phil.uni-erlangen.de/~oschult/humanlab/publica... "Thus, high levels of testosterone are associated with willingness to incur greater risk in both sexes." In my experience, this view has loose ties to ADHD, specifically regarding the hunter-farmer hypothesis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_vs._farmer_hypothesis Doesn't say it in the article, but…

>Hartmann's main book on ADHD discusses how he tested an African tribe for ADHD. 100% of those tested were "positive" for ADHD If this is indeed true, why are we not seriously reconsidering this whole thing of dosing kids on very shaky grounds?

The short answer: $$$$