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Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

theguardian.com

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Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#571

Post by Xylakant »

oblio wrote: post #541
ferongr wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carrying 35kg of groceries sucks. Especially when it rains. Personally, I drive 2km to a larger store with underground parking instead of visiting the store two blocks away.

That's a very narrow minded approach :-) People don't carry around 35kg of groceries each time they go to the local supermarket. They buy a tiny bit of what they need each day, walking back from home/school, since it takes so little time and often it's on the way, anyway. Carrying 2-5-6-7-8-10kg is quite easy.

There’s usually also the option of having stuff delivered. The heaviest items are drinks and getting those delivered has the additional benefit of getting them brought to the doorstep. Costs a bit more, but not owning a car offsets that easily. Friends just call a cab for their monthly large shopping.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#572

Post by Daho0n »

ajross wrote: post #32
dm319 wrote: post #3

The UK plan for no ICE vehicles to be sold by 2030 is fairly ambitious. I'm seeing more and more electric vehicles on the roads, but I think some regular customers will be disappointed by how poor the infrastructure is. Not only that electric chargers aren't as prevalent as they need to be, but the number of high-speed chargers are tiny (think a couple of locations per large city), but an even bigger problem is the h…

> the number of high-speed chargers are tiny (think a couple of locations per large city) That's not so far off. Even large cities in North America have no more than a few dozen gas stations (and the UK likely fewer still due to things like London's congestion pricing reducing vehicle count). Once-a-week-or-so fueling doesn't really require a huge amount of infrastructure. That's one of the reasons we're all addicted…

> Even large cities in North America have no more than a few dozen gas stations (and the UK likely fewer still due to things like London's congestion pricing reducing vehicle count).

That's quite funny reading from my chair. I live in a small town in Scandinavia (~50.000 people in all of the county) and a quick count at Google maps show me that apparently there are more gas-stations here (14 in a 5km radius from me - 5 inside the city limits itself) than in "large cities in North America".

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#573

Post by beowulfey »

twblalock wrote: post #519
theshrike79 wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't build for peak traffic, not in software nor in hardware.

Gas stations seem to be able to handle it. Why can't we expect the same for charging stations? Build for peak capacity. The chargers don't draw much when they aren't plugged in to cars. If we expect to succeed with charging infrastructure we need to make it convenient, even during holidays.

Contrast Tesla superchargers in CA with, e.g. getting gas at a Costco. They experience similar degrees of queuing. There is a limit to how much of peak capacity you can build for. The solution is not to increase the capacity of a single station, but to build more of them (just as with gas stations). Which is obviously what Tesla is doing.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#574

Post by richardw »

jiggawatts wrote: post #246

My problem is renting apartments. If you ask the strata or the building managers about charging points in the carpark, they look at you like you're speaking Klingon. This is true of even very recently completed buildings in well-off areas of relatively wealthy western countries. Heck, I just walked past three Teslas in my building's car park, one of which is new and wasn't there last week! Do people... not plan ahead…

It seems like car sharing should sort this out. Uber, car share schemes, self-driving cars...the trend seems towards less ownership and more short term use. Having a car sit around for 22 hours a day is a massive waste. These schemes suit cities, exactly where parking is a problem.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#575

Post by chovybizzass »

jiggawatts wrote: post #246

My problem is renting apartments. If you ask the strata or the building managers about charging points in the carpark, they look at you like you're speaking Klingon. This is true of even very recently completed buildings in well-off areas of relatively wealthy western countries. Heck, I just walked past three Teslas in my building's car park, one of which is new and wasn't there last week! Do people... not plan ahead…

Here in East Palo Alto there are a number of charging stations at the shopping mall. I don't know what the markup is compared to a home charging station.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#576

Post by FlyingSnake »

whatever1 wrote: post #427

EVs currently have high enough utility in the wealthy suburbia where you own your garage and have the capability to charge overnight. If you are a euro-peasant living in a third floor apartment, street parking and commuting to work, then an EV has very little utility to offer. You cannot expect that people will go on a regular basis to charge stations and spend an hour to charge their car. You cannot also have a reas…

Another Euro-peasant living in a 2nd floor apartment with street parking here. My street and kiez is full of electric chargers and special parking zones for them. Recently Germany passed a law that enables all gas stations to have electric chargers. I’ve booked an e-up! and it’s a perfect city car for small errands and weekend excursions to Potsdam etc.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#577

Post by mjul »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #562
mjul wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the market has already solved this with companies like E-on and the like solving all the complexity for both public and private charging stations. Perhaps there is still an open market opportunity for this in your local market for entrepreneurs to fill.

The market hasn't solved jack untill they have actually installed enough chargers to support at least 50% EV ownership. Untill then the jury is still out, so please don't claim that the probelm is solved and we can rest easy because 'muh market'

Let me clarify that the “solved problem” I was referring to was that of the complexity for the building owners if they thought the only solution was to roll their own charging and billing solution.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#578

Post by Noos »

oblio wrote: post #541
ferongr wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carrying 35kg of groceries sucks. Especially when it rains. Personally, I drive 2km to a larger store with underground parking instead of visiting the store two blocks away.

That's a very narrow minded approach :-) People don't carry around 35kg of groceries each time they go to the local supermarket. They buy a tiny bit of what they need each day, walking back from home/school, since it takes so little time and often it's on the way, anyway. Carrying 2-5-6-7-8-10kg is quite easy.

Some people have a couple of kids, and need more groceries that can be done that way. Some times there is this thing called "inclement weather" which means it rains 2-3 days in a row and makes doing this miserable. Or you work a double shift and are too tired to get groceries, or you work 2nd shift and everything is closed on the way back except convenience stores. Or you get sick and can't actually go out to get food for a few days.

There's so much of a bubble here sometimes. Narrow minded...dude, not everyone is a single, childless, wealthy knowledge worker that can waste their time to do this.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#579

Post by Daho0n »

magicalhippo wrote: post #197
davidhbolton wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in London until 2015 and took a recent look on Street View where I lived (Search for E10 6QB if you want to see) . It was a typical London street where everyone parks nose to nose. There's about 20 cars for every lamp post. No way could you charge every car that way. With the typical 50-70% street occupancy. You'd be lucky to find a spare lamp post.

> No way could you charge every car that way. But surely the majority of those cars have a short commute. We have a BMW i3 which has a relatively small 33kWh battery, and we usually charge it less than twice per week. A car with a longer range wouldn't need to be charged that often.

>But surely the majority of those cars have a short commute.

That is irrelevant. If you cannot always get a parking spot where you can charge then from time to time you would end up not being able to change when you absolutely need to. It's like parking at work and there's no charging available and you have to drive around for 20 minutes and turn up late for work. No, there's a need for either always available charging in every single area or a system that is a direct replacement for gas stations (IE. charge in a couple of minutes every week or so).

I have lived in an area like it (luckily I moved) and the amount of time I have driven around in circles just to get a parking spot is more than I'd like to know. If only some of them had charging people with cars would be forced to either move away or drive around in circles for hours on end every day.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#580

Post by Xylakant »

Noos wrote: post #578
oblio wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very narrow minded approach :-) People don't carry around 35kg of groceries each time they go to the local supermarket. They buy a tiny bit of what they need each day, walking back from home/school, since it takes so little time and often it's on the way, anyway. Carrying 2-5-6-7-8-10kg is quite easy.

Some people have a couple of kids, and need more groceries that can be done that way. Some times there is this thing called "inclement weather" which means it rains 2-3 days in a row and makes doing this miserable. Or you work a double shift and are too tired to get groceries, or you work 2nd shift and everything is closed on the way back except convenience stores. Or you get sick and can't actually go out to get foo…

I have kids and deal with inclement weather - it’s been a mix of rain and snow for most of the last couple of days. Granted, I’m a knowledge worker, but shops are open until midnight in the neighborhood and worst case, both of the large supermarket chains here deliver until late with prearranged slots.

For the majority of (urban) people it’s definitely manageable. More than 50% of all households in central Berlin own no car, numbers rising.

I used to own a car, and the tipping point from “I can’t do that” to “no problem to do that” was selling the car. It’s an acquired habit for most of us. I now own an umbrella and a good waterproof jacket instead.

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