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YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

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Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#571

Post by Engineering-MD »

cambalache wrote: post #421
GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

> But... There is no "buts" regarding freedom. I dont know if you have any experience with authoritarian measures but none of them starts like "This is a bad and permanent measure for no reason"... all of them are "exceptional", "to ensure public safety" ,"only valid as long as extraordinary circumstances are present"..all of them. The democrats were claiming fraud 4 years go due to a supposed Russian influence.The e…

Well there are and should be. The classic example is shouting “fire!” in a crowded room. This is freedom, but causes chaos without the benefits that freedom of expression allows. Pure freedom can be as bad as authoritarianism. Pure freedom is lawlessness and law of the most powerful. This is what fake news is moving towards, the law of those who can manipulate the truth the best. Like all things balance between both extremes is the answer, and the disagreement is where that balance point lies.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#572

Post by gwd »

briefcomment wrote: post #428
GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

[flagged]

Well, according to a federal judge appointed by President Trump:

> Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.

And according to Giuliani, Trump's own attorney, in the actual court filings:

> the Campaign “doesn’t plead fraud. . . . [T]his is not a fraud case.” Mot. to Dismiss Hr’g Tr. 118:19–20, 137:18

When your own attorney says "this is not a fraud case", do you think maybe there was no fraud?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/read-the-third-circui...

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#573

Post by notassigned »

donkeyd wrote: post #327

Holy shit, this thread is scary. Sure, there are some implications worth discussing based on this news. However, the number of people directly posting doubts on the election results is way more concerning and shows that Youtube might be doing a good thing in this case.

A move like this by youtube is the only thing that has given me doubt so far

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#574

Post by kart23 »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #15
macspoofing wrote: post #4

For God's sakes ... What underpins this need for social media companies to virtue signal about protecting 'election integrity' is the false notion that 2016 was stolen from Hillary by the Russians - a claim that had no evidential support (and no, that some trolls bought a minuscule amount of Facebook ads does not raise this claim to that level) but the entire Democratic party, with media allies, promulgated for the l…

You are mis-stating the assertion. The Government said that Russia had meddled in the 2016 election. They didn't say it changed the results.

This documentary got nominated for tons of awards. And it heavily insinuates that the election was stolen/cheated and the outcome could have been different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Hack

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#575

Post by seanwilson »

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

> but it's not like the US government is doing a better job

I think this is the part people are overlooking when they talk about censorship and freedom of speech...what are you supposed to do when it's the government of your country itself that is actively pushing large amounts of misinformation? Does it not completely change the situation compared to an individual or organisation doing this?

It takes more effort to show a lie to be false than it does to tell another lie, and the public only have finite time to weigh up the accuracy of information. The government has more power to push out convincing misinformation in vast quantities than anyone else.

A lot of the time of you don't need censorship because truth and open critique will drown out the lies, but there's going to be a breaking point when the misinformation being thrown out becomes overpowering.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#576

Post by gentleterror »

GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

Yeah, like that one time when Twitter and Facebook banned spreading of a mostly true article about Hunter Biden. Oh, wait, that rejects your point, man. Social networks are much more venomous.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#577

Post by notassigned »

dillondoyle wrote: post #507
3princip wrote: post #441

I live in a country that the US has sanctioned in the past for undemocratic election processes. Also, I'm familiar with our voting procedures and have worked on election oversight, data gathering etc. If we had an election that had a fraction of the irregularities that are surfacing in some of these problematic states, I'm pretty sure we would have been invaded by now. Jokes aside, those states are a similar populati…

?? show actual factual sources if you're going to make a claim like that on a platform like HN

Sorry, no factual sources can exist since this has been declared false by Alphabet, Inc

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#578

Post by kiawe_fire »

kiawe_fire wrote: post #509

In a free and fair society, it is not dangerous to ask questions. It is very dangerous to be told that you are not allowed to ask questions. In a marketplace of ideas, with free sharing of information, bogus claims will eventually (usually quickly) collapse on themselves, and true claims will bear themselves out. Attempting to silence ideas, even potentially false and harmful ideas, is the greatest way to build a soc…

You can downvote me, but first indulge me...

Imagine, for a second, that you saw something concerning. For argument’s sake, say you saw your boss doing something you perceived to be illegal.

Imagine, then, that you were told that asking about those things was dangerous, because it would cause everyone to lose faith in who they work for.

Now imagine that HR or a PR firm comes, only after trying hard to convince you that you shouldn’t ask any questions at all, and then tells you that they investigated and found nothing wrong.

Then imagine that, while some of the explanation given made sense, some of it did not, and maybe led to more questions.

Finally, imagine then being told that not only should you no longer question, but that anyone caught talking about it would be removed.

Now, we don’t know that something illegal did or did not occur.

But be honest... would that scenario convince you that nothing illegal happened, and that you should move on as instructed?

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#579

Post by fumar »

cambalache wrote: post #421
GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

> But... There is no "buts" regarding freedom. I dont know if you have any experience with authoritarian measures but none of them starts like "This is a bad and permanent measure for no reason"... all of them are "exceptional", "to ensure public safety" ,"only valid as long as extraordinary circumstances are present"..all of them. The democrats were claiming fraud 4 years go due to a supposed Russian influence.The e…

Is there a solution to diminish the value of misinformation from political actors? It doesn't matter what party they align to. The American people deserve clear unbiased information to make their decisions. If then, they choose to align with a tribe, then that is exercising their freedom.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#580

Post by grumio »

anonymousab wrote: post #429
GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

I don't think we're anywhere near peak. The potential of deepfake videos - and not realistic ones necessarily, but memey reaffirments ala many photoshops - is massive and heavily underutilized compared to where they could be. And that's just one small dimension of lightly explored territory. If anything, this cycle has simply shown that there is massive merit in investing heavily in brazen manipulation techniques. We…

I was expecting to see a realistic convincing deepfake before the election, but this did happen: a video was faked making it look like Biden addressed a crowd as if they were in a different state. Pretty lame as far as fake videos go, but it plays into the "Biden is senile" narrative...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

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