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72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

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Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#571

Post by ponker »

slg wrote: post #403
bo1024 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and there are a lot of good reasons for that! The two functions become obsolete at different rates, and people have different needs for each of them, so it's the right place to put an abstraction layer. When I buy a computer monitor, I can pair it with any computer I want. I can upgrade the graphics card or processor independently of the monitor. I'm not locked in to a particular computer based on the features o…

>The two functions become obsolete at different rates The implication here is that the connectivity tech goes obsolete quicker than screen tech. That has traditionally been true, but has it been over the last 5 years or so? We don't even have to get into the specific display technology. Just from a feature perspective, there has been a lot of innovation in screens including 4k, HDR, and high refresh rates.

Going “obsolete” isn’t uniform. A product can go obsolete for your use case without going obsolete for mine. An audiophile might consider a platform that doesn’t support the latest surround sound protocol as “obsolete” while I would not even notice.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#572

Post by tguvot »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #560
tguvot wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go to settings > installed application and lunch VLC or anything else directly from there

I'm pretty sure the last time my internet was down I couldn't get into anything but the wifi settings. But I'll try it next time, thanks for the tip!

You can go back from network settings back to settings or something like this. just poke around. Discovered it when comcast went down for 4 days and wanted to run kodi on firetv

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#573

Post by loughnane »

neurostimulant wrote: post #82
the8472 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and ISP provided DNS is almost universally terrible. They’ll ignore TTLs, rewrite NXDOMAIN responses into the IP address of their ad-laced web search, and occasionally just highjack every single query to send you to a page saying you’re approaching your bandwidth quota Universally? Perhaps in the US? But IoT devices are sold worldwide. While I do run my own recursive resolver I checked my ISP's and they're behaving…

> Universally? Perhaps in the US? But IoT devices are sold worldwide. Ugh, the situation is even worst in countries with censorship laws. For example, in my country, all ISP are required to intercept all DNS requests and filter all requests to any blocked domains found in the government block list. At least they're transparent about which sites are blocked though (the list is publicly available to query or download),…

Curious which country is this? A public list of censored sites seems an odd thing to exist

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#575

Post by will_pseudonym »

acdha wrote: post #76
the8472 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and ISP provided DNS is almost universally terrible. They’ll ignore TTLs, rewrite NXDOMAIN responses into the IP address of their ad-laced web search, and occasionally just highjack every single query to send you to a page saying you’re approaching your bandwidth quota Universally? Perhaps in the US? But IoT devices are sold worldwide. While I do run my own recursive resolver I checked my ISP's and they're behaving…

It’s not just the U.S. A problem report once lead me to discover that the Spanish company Telefónica cached DNS results for years longer than the TTL. My error monitoring also picked up content injection (prior to HTTPS) and DNS hijacking around the world. Before going with the conspiratorial take note that Mozilla shipped DoH early and both Microsoft and Apple implemented it. Untrustworthy ISPs are a real problem ev…

For anyone else not in the know, "DoH" means "DNS-over-HTTPS"

Here's an article from November 19, 2020 about the rollout and some of the criticisms/backlash:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/fearing-drama-mozilla-opens-pu...

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#576

Post by drewbug01 »

colinmhayes wrote: post #492
drewbug01 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Track record: 8888 has been running for more than ten years. I understand the point you're trying to make here - but long-lived products are still shut down by Google, fairly often. Here's a list of some Google products that have been / were around for 10 years or more before being killed (or are slated to be killed soon): - Chrome Apps - Cloud Print - Fusion Tables - Youtube Video Annotations - Google Search Appli…

Use your brain. Google kills product because no one uses them because they mostly suck. Google's DNS server serves something like a trillion requests a day. It might be hard to see the business value for google but it is clear. Google makes money when people use the internet. The DNS server exists to make the internet the best it can be. If you have a shitty dns server you can always use googles. That means google is…

I literally said:

> They'll keep Google DNS running as long as it provides business value to them, and that's it.

As in yes: I know it provides business value to them.

> Use your brain

Please be civil in your comments and refrain from insults. That’s not a charitable way to interact with others.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#577

Post by frankchn »

the8472 wrote: post #467
carstenhag wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, Telekom used to hijack nxdomain. A court actually found them guilty and since a half year or so they are no longer doing that.

I think that actually supports my point. A customer has a relationship with the ISP and can actually sue them. If people start putting google or cloudflare DNS into lots of devices and apps and those start doing something questionable then you have no recourse and even if they did they'd have to go after dozens of different vendors to change their behavior instead of the single ISP.

It doesn’t matter to the device OEM when the customer demands a refund because the device stopped working, even though the root cause is the ISP hijacking the DNS request and the device OEM has nothing to do with it. Easier to work around this apparently common ISP practice.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#578

Post by garaetjjte »

loughnane wrote: post #573
neurostimulant wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Universally? Perhaps in the US? But IoT devices are sold worldwide. Ugh, the situation is even worst in countries with censorship laws. For example, in my country, all ISP are required to intercept all DNS requests and filter all requests to any blocked domains found in the government block list. At least they're transparent about which sites are blocked though (the list is publicly available to query or download),…

Curious which country is this? A public list of censored sites seems an odd thing to exist

OP talks about somewhere else, but Poland have public registry of domain names that every ISP must block/redirect to Ministry of Finance website in their DNS resolver: https://hazard.mf.gov.pl/ (gambling sites running without proper license) (this is only about ISP resolver, no intercepting going on)

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#579

Post by hda2 »

tguvot wrote: post #572
GekkePrutser wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the last time my internet was down I couldn't get into anything but the wifi settings. But I'll try it next time, thanks for the tip!

You can go back from network settings back to settings or something like this. just poke around. Discovered it when comcast went down for 4 days and wanted to run kodi on firetv

Amazon also tends to hide options until you "try" connecting to your network. My device refused to work without internet until I "tried" connecting to my network using an incorrect password. When I did that and the device failed, an option to skip network setup appeared. In small font at the bottom of the screen, of course.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#580

Post by manigandham »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #183
acdha wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point Mozilla is just the Non-profit Arm of Google, They do what google tells them You can just say you don’t follow this closely. Mozilla is not perfect but they do push for privacy, with an increasingly limited amount of negotiating power. > DoH is absolutely designed to get around network based security and filtering, both for Ad's and other reasons. This is similarly reflecting a poor understanding of t…

DoH absolutely can get network filtering: if I block port 53 outbound to control DNS queries within my network, DoH (and other tunneling technologies) is bypassing my network filtering of DNS.

The issue isn't network filtering, it's encryption.

Standard DNS is unencrypted. DNS-over-HTTP is encrypted. Or DNSSEC or any number of newer standards that secure the DNS lookup. At that point, filtering will require MITM proxies, whether it's for DNS or HTTP or any other protocol.

It's a trade-off with security on the open network meaning harder penetration and control in your internal network. There's no easy answer.

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