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YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

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Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#571

Post by ReidZB »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #348
hardmath123 wrote: post #267

A gem in the EFF's letter ( https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/11/2020-11-1... ) > To borrow an analogy from literature, travelers come upon a door that has writing in a foreign language. When translated, the writing says "say 'friend' and enter." The travelers say "friend" and the door opens. As with the writing on that door, YouTube presents instructions on accessing video streams to everyone who comes…

For those that haven’t experienced the joy of Tolkien’s writing, this is a reference to the Elvish inscription on the Doors of Durin in The Fellowship of the Ring , that is simultaneously a riddle and literal instructions on entering.

Fun fact, that inscription also contains of the few continuity errors in published Tolkien material. It starts with:

> The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria

but as the Tolkien Gateway explains:

> The name Moria means "Black Chasm" and was a derogatory description of the place which the Dwarves did not like, and was given after Durin's Bane took over the city in the Third Age. It is therefore a mystery why that name appears on an inscription made in the Second Age, and made in consent with the Dwarves.

The most common "mitigating explanation" I see is that Tolkien, the "translator," perhaps used the name the reader would be most familiar with (Moria) instead of the city's real name (Khazad-dûm) when transcribing the door's inscription.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#572

Post by dragonwriter »

wgjordan wrote: post #569
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The youtube-dl incident was not a section 512 takedown. There was no infringing material, i.e., content, to remove. The RIAA letter made no mention of section 512, referring instead to section 1201. Neither did this letter from EFF refer to section 512. This was not a section 512 takedown. The rules in section 512 do not apply.

The 'copyright violations' section of the RIAA letter (regarding the unit tests) was clearly a standard §512 notice alleging copyright infringement. Even if §512 wasn't explicitly mentioned, it's still a legally effective notification of claimed infringement. > The rules in section 512 do not apply. Assuming you're referring only to the §1201 'anticircumvention' portion of the claim (the main focus of the GitHub post…

> Assuming you're referring only to the §1201 'anticircumvention' portion of the claim (the main focus of the GitHub post), whether this portion is _also_ subject to §512 rules is a little more ambiguous. §1201 defines a trafficking violation separate from copyright infringement itself, but some court rulings have established a requirement that §1201 violations establish a 'nexus' to copyright infringement in order to be valid. If this is true, the §512 safe harbor protections could indirectly cover §1201 claims as well.

I don't think that even if the first is true, the second is true: even the courts that hold the "nexus" position don't, AFAIK, hold that Sec. 1201 liability requires that the trafficker be already liable for contributory infringement, only that there be a connection of the trafficked circumvention measure to infringement.

OTOH, if its not covered by the safe harbor provision, that doesn't mean notice of the violation is irrelevant; knowledge is explicitly relevant to one route to liability under Sec. 1201, and arguably necessary for any of the others; notice potentially take the host from being an exploited bystander to a liable trafficker, provided that they do not take action to end the trafficking on their platform.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#573

Post by thedenimdino »

ReidZB wrote: post #571
ComputerGuru wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those that haven’t experienced the joy of Tolkien’s writing, this is a reference to the Elvish inscription on the Doors of Durin in The Fellowship of the Ring , that is simultaneously a riddle and literal instructions on entering.

Fun fact, that inscription also contains of the few continuity errors in published Tolkien material. It starts with: > The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria but as the Tolkien Gateway explains: > The name Moria means "Black Chasm" and was a derogatory description of the place which the Dwarves did not like, and was given after Durin's Bane took over the city in the Third Age. It is therefore a mystery why that name appea…

Another fun fact is that, the doors were built in cooperation between Elves and the Dwarves. Celebrimbor (also the guy who made all the rings except the one) and Narvi.

The friendship between an Eleven and Dwarven kingdom was kinda rare.

And thus, speak friend and enter

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#574

Post by drummer »

dylan604 wrote: post #371
drummer wrote: post #294

Steve Ballmer would be proud!* Developers, developers, developers!!! *) and throw chairs at the RIAA

Was this something Ballmer is known for doing? Was he practicing to be a NCAA basketball coach?

Yeah you can search for Ballmer's chair throwing online. It was fucking hilarious.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#575

Post by hombre_fatal »

_jal wrote: post #150
bigbubba wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology has had an impact on nearly any industry you can think of. As such, there is no shortage of tech work outside of ad tech. Ten years ago I worked on ad tech shit for Amazon, but I quit when I realized that made me a parasite. I don't work in food delivery, but I'd say getting a pizza from point A to B is a hell of a lot more productive than being a lawyer for the RIAA.

Appified pizza delivery is rent seeking. There is zero need for a multinational between hungry people and food delivery. Inserting them raises costs, lowers service quality, and lowers revenue to restaurants. Off topic, but I would like to note this thread's congruence to Snow Crash : There's only four things we do better than anyone else: music movies microcode (software) high-speed pizza delivery

> There is zero need for a multinational between hungry people and food delivery. Inserting them raises costs, lowers service quality, and lowers revenue to restaurants.

Nonsense.

Everyone I live with went from not ordering any food to using UberEats weekly because it's so much more pleasant than interfacing with every restaurant directly, having to carry cash to pay and tip, having on easy way to answer "what's open right now?", etc.

All these restaurants are getting money they would have never received from me had the app never existed. And everyone I know uses UberEats and will sheepishly admit they use it way too often.

You should talk to people who use UberEats before you assume it provides zero value to anyone, not sure what else to say. Maybe you can do the same for Uber as well.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#576

Post by boomboomsubban »

crtasm wrote: post #558
boomboomsubban wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube-dl's counter claim states that though those lines of code did not violate the DMCA, they have replaced them with videos without copyright music. That sounds like they didn't really have any reason to make major label music videos part of the tests, it was just a developers personal preference. Though, it doesn't prove this is the case.

It is not the case, and all that has happened is a removal: https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/commit/1fb034d029c8b7...

That commit details the replacement of the music videos with a generic test video, exactly what I said. I'm unsure how it is supposed to show it is not the case.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#577

Post by verall »

_23sd wrote: post #561
thewakalix wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube wasn't behind the DMCA takedown, though. Do they even care about youtube-dl?

Youtube has to listen to the RIAA's demands because music and music videos are a huge portion of their traffic. The music industry could decide to move all that to Spotify if they chose.

Yea ha ha.

They took that poison pill already, I really, really doubt they ever new pop music stops being part of youtube in the future, the audience is too large. It would be like them taking music off of the radio because people could record it on reel-to-reels. They might stomp around a bit and try to use the law to get what they want, but when push comes to shove the big labels will keep their music on youtube.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#578

Post by dragonwriter »

clarkdale wrote: post #510
ComputerGuru wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What movie? I think you mean, “read the book.”

Not OP, but I think he was referring to The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)[0] which grossed $887.9 million and won 4 Academy awards[1]. [0]: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120737/ [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_The_Fel...

> Not OP, but I think he was referring to The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)

OP referenced "over 90% of HN readers", who are notoriously out-of-the-mainstream nerds[0], so he probably was referring to The Lord of the Rings (1978) [1] which grossed $33.7 million (which seems a lot less than the 2001 film, but is pretty similar as a multiplier on its budget.)

[0] https://www.example.com/what-you-thought-this-was-a-real-sou...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_(1978_fi...

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#579

Post by abnry »

TheKarateKid wrote: post #493
TechBro8615 wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, they’re doing a lot, including establishing a $1M legal defense fund for developers and a technical team to review the validity of anti-circumvention DMCA notices. It seems like they’re doing a lot more than just paying lip service to EFF / developer freedom, and they should be commended for it.

They’re correcting a wrong because their reputation took a big hit in the dev community. Now there’s big talk of the dangers of not self-hosting your repo and the monoculture of using GitHub. Although it probably has good intent, this is largely PR.

Or they just panicked with the RIAA request and needed time to regroup. Cynicism doesn't have to be a hobby.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#580

Post by wgjordan »

wgjordan wrote: post #461

Rather interesting that GitHub decided to restore access 1 day after receiving the EFF's counter notice, instead of waiting 10 days. As a brief legal recap, in 1998 the DMCA added §512 [1] to US copyright law, which established a mechanism for shielding 'service providers' from liability for content posted by users (known as 'safe harbor'), but only as long as they follow formal procedures (known as 'DMCA takedown')…

After reading the EFF's letter a little more closely, I realize now that it wasn't even a formal DMCA counter notice representing the repository owners, just an informal legal rebuttal of the original claims. Oops. So GitHub wasn't legally required to restore access at all even after 10-14 days, since no official counter notice was ever received.

That makes it more significant (not merely symbolic) that GitHub chose to short-circuit its DMCA process to restore access and open themselves up to liability in this case.

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