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macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

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Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#571

Post by aunty_helen »

berryg wrote: post #326
josephcsible wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that if you're offline, it skips this check and everything works fine. The reason this is a big deal is that the problem's on their end, so you're not offline, so it keeps trying and waiting instead of just letting you skip the check.

I experienced this a couple of weeks ago. My wifi was up, but my internetprovider was down. My Macbook came to a halt. Nothing worked anymore. The whole machine was extremely slow. When the internetprovider came back up again, everything was fine again.

Had the same thing earlier in the week as the isp was doing maintenance two nights in a row. 5+ seconds to start sublime and other really basic apps. Apple apps had no problem of course.

Remembering the notarization problems people were having months ago I did some tests and confirmed.

Now have little snitch installed again and my laptops going to be an Apple orphan. So I never noticed this problem today by virtue of it pissing me off 2 days before.

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#572

Post by m4rtink »

miguelmota wrote: post #281
vishesh92 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found another reason for me to not get a Mac

You can't go wrong with a ThinkPad. I switched from Mac to a T480 with Arch for dev work and it's been great.

I'm running a bunch of ThinkPads with Fedora & all works fine (and worked fine for years).

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#573

Post by naetius »

p1necone wrote: post #58
modeless wrote: post #19

You've got to be kidding me. When Apple's servers are down, all Macs worldwide start freezing randomly? My XCode is hanging during builds, is this why? This code signing enforcement stuff has gone way too far. Heads should roll for this.

Wait what happens if you don't have an internet connection? Can Macs not be used offline any more, surely that's still a relatively common use case for a laptop even today in a lot of places?

That's why notarized applications should be stapled too. The stapling "ticket" is embedded in the app bundle and allows macOS to perform an offline check.

Basically you'll get the usual GateKeeper window, but with a slightly different message, along the lines of "I can't check this binary in realtime but I trust the embedded notarization".

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#574

Post by babypuncher »

damnencryption wrote: post #394
babypuncher wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference between the Google and Apple dictatorships is the business model. Google's customers are not the users, they are the advertisers who rely on the data harvested by Google. The incentive to be evil is directly baked into the business model, and most users end up tolerating it because it is "FREE", and often the only viable option. Apple's customers are the users. If Apple rocks the boat too much,…

> Making users upset is a direct threat to their business model You can't really compare Google to Apple. You can switch to a different company if you don't like pixel phones and get almost the same experience. You can switch between manufacturers and use windows/Linux as well. The same isn't true about Mac os or iOS. While you may think customers still have a choice, the reality is that they are locked in through th…

> You can't really compare Google to Apple. You can switch to a different company if you don't like pixel phones and get almost the same experience. You can switch between manufacturers and use windows/Linux as well. The same isn't true about Mac os or iOS.

This doesn't really make much sense to me. Unless you are going with a niche privacy-oriented fork of AOSP, any non-iOS smartphone you move to will still be controlled by Google. And if you do move to one of those forks, you are essentially migrating to an entirely new ecosystem anyways. It's no easier to leave Google's Android ecosystem than it is to leave iOS or macOS.

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#575

Post by ls65536 »

themgt wrote: post #87
londons_explore wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No connection -> Fine Good connection -> Fine Spotty connection -> Problematic. Basically, they didn't include a timeout in their network code.

It's funny how many apps have this problem, you don't realize until you're on a spotty connection. Often disabling/cycling the wifi/network fixes an app freeze.

A "manual" test case I've seen before actually involved trying various things in the software while literally walking into an elevator and having all network connectivity suddenly cut out (no WiFi and no cell radio), in order to simulate what so many people do (or at least did anyway, pre-COVID) regularly throughout the day. I suppose this is also a bit different than just toggling connectivity on the device, since for some time the app and OS both still think the connection is in tact when it's already physically gone, so it may even be useful to help expose other issues this way.

One of the things that's easy to take for granted these days when working on desktop or server software is a mostly stable network connection, but on mobile this goes completely out the window, or down the elevator shaft as the case may be. :)

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#576

Post by m4rtink »

jonny_eh wrote: post #363
tshaddox wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm puzzled that people are willing buy a computer/OS where (apparently) software can/will fail to launch if some central company server goes down. Maybe I'm just getting this wrong, because I can honestly not quite wrap my head around this. This is such a big no-go, from a systems design point of view. The answer is pretty simple: these problems are extremely rare, they don't last very long, and they tend to have…

It's even simpler than people not caring, people don't know.

And they don't know because the hidden source of the binaries their overpriced hardware is running. So users can't inspect the source and look for hidden "gems" like this one, let alone fix those intentional bugs themselves - not just due to not having the source, but the hardware refusing to boot anything not signed by the blessed key of Apple.

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#577

Post by birdyrooster »

areoform wrote: post #533
submeta wrote: post #2

Unbelievable. When I read the tweet (tried to post here as well), I suddenly realized why my Mac was unresponsive an hour ago. Here is another tweet that describes the problem in more detail: https://mobile.twitter.com/llanga/status/1326989724704268289 > I am currently unable to work because macOS sends hashes of every opened executable to some server of theirs and when `trustd` and `syspolicyd` are unable to do so,…

So yesterday I wrote about the blurring lines of ownership, and people came back with some fairly disparate responses. It's fair to say that I was mostly dismissed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25058952 And this is why I won't be moving to Apple silicon. Apple already has the ability to restrict whats apps I can run (they can simply toggle a switch for all users to "no unsigned binaries"), and congrats! Apple…

Their SSL certificate revocation server (the default for macOS) goes down an you try to tie it to Apple Silicon being created to lock-in users? I understand the feelings people have about this but today's failure seems orthogonal.

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#578

Post by HideousKojima »

birdyrooster wrote: post #577
areoform wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So yesterday I wrote about the blurring lines of ownership, and people came back with some fairly disparate responses. It's fair to say that I was mostly dismissed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25058952 And this is why I won't be moving to Apple silicon. Apple already has the ability to restrict whats apps I can run (they can simply toggle a switch for all users to "no unsigned binaries"), and congrats! Apple…

Their SSL certificate revocation server (the default for macOS) goes down an you try to tie it to Apple Silicon being created to lock-in users? I understand the feelings people have about this but today's failure seems orthogonal.

It's just one of many recent actions that they've taken that have made people wary. The changes to app signing in recent OS X versions was another example of this

Re: macOS unable to open any non-Apple application

#579

Post by notnap »

Aperocky wrote: post #450
twoodfin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost certainly so. Apple has built chains of certificate trust very deep into the OS, along with apparently an assumption that this particular revocation service check is reliable & fast enough to call out to the network a lot .

Oh man, imagining a DDOS to fail that over. Imagine how many people would lost their productiveness, maybe not at the big corps or govt (I assume they use a version of mac that call somewhere else/don't). But very very many people.

Today I was late to join a corporate conference call. It took like 5 mins to start conferencing software.

First time ever I'm genuinely frustrated with apple - macs are not those unicorn tools anymore that work reliable

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