Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#571

Post by stbtrax » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:26 AM UTC

annexrichmond wrote: post #539

dongvsascript wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have an honest question here. i haven't lived in sf -just visited. i have however been to most states and about 40 countries for comparison. food - most of what i saw was not good food. hipsterish overpriced food made by chefs trying to show off by putting a twist on dishes -not to be good, just to be different or weird. tiny portions, not tasting above average, on a huge plate. all presentation, not actual taste.…

as someone who's lived in SF for years this is all very true. Food is expensive and a lot of it's designed to be instagrammed. There are definitely some great spots but not that many and really not that diverse (lacks middle eastern, greek, british, American bbq, spanish) Nightlife is horrible, bars pretty much close at 1am, hardly any live music, gender imbalance, and not much density so it often just feels "dead" i…

I'm not sure what you're comparing it to, SF is known to have a world-class food scene. There are multiple examples all of the things you listed(except maybe british but who wants that?), as well as things that you don't find in may other cities: burmese, cambodian, laotian, peruvian.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#572

Post by matt-attack » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:26 AM UTC

wolco wrote: post #552

radicaldreamer wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in the short to medium term... the characteristics which make SF an attractive place to live (just like NYC) are resilient and sticky. If you consider a post-covid world 5 years from now, do you think that SF with it's museums, bars, restaurants, and proximity to nature will be an unattractive place to live? Do you think that remote-first/remote-only companies where the majority of employees are outside of the b…

It's like the stock market, buy on the dip. This year would be a great year to buy the sf property if you see yourself there in 5 years.

The article mentioned rents down, but have housing prices dipped?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#573

Post by readhn » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:28 AM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #483

Bud wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you don't know how many more jobs there are in SF that pay well enough to afford that than there are in other places.

If salaries don't need to reflect local cost of living, it seems that salaries will be subject to change. Fairly soon?

that's an excellent point!!

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#574

Post by opportune » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:29 AM UTC

stbtrax wrote: post #571

annexrichmond wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as someone who's lived in SF for years this is all very true. Food is expensive and a lot of it's designed to be instagrammed. There are definitely some great spots but not that many and really not that diverse (lacks middle eastern, greek, british, American bbq, spanish) Nightlife is horrible, bars pretty much close at 1am, hardly any live music, gender imbalance, and not much density so it often just feels "dead" i…

I'm not sure what you're comparing it to, SF is known to have a world-class food scene. There are multiple examples all of the things you listed(except maybe british but who wants that?), as well as things that you don't find in may other cities: burmese, cambodian, laotian, peruvian.

SF does have some very nice restaurants, but the vast majority are nothing special and quite over-priced for what you get IMO. And the very nice restaurants are so expensive they're not the thing you go to more than once a month unless you're very wealthy.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#575

Post by desert_boi » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:30 AM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #344

jeffbee wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is generally true. You can bike right out of San Francisco over the Golden Gate Bridge and be away from the city in minutes. You can walk or bike out of the west side of silicon valley into a huge area of contiguous parkland. If you leave San Jose in the right direction you could hike for days without seeing anyone.

You can bike right out of Philly and Boise and get the same things. Maybe even more beauty. Why should we pay SF prices for the privilege?

Boise is converging with the coasts in terms of pricing and its infrastructure is depressingly inadequate.

The local paper ran a story saying that the median house price in the city proper went up $15K in one month[1] and wages are not budging. 84% of the city is zoned for single family homes. Downtown pre-lockdown had 80K cars fighting for 18K parking spots.

I live in a one bedroom penthouse Downtown for $2K a month. I don't have care. It's only the 7th floor though, and on a 5 lane highway that the city has asked the state to narrow (the state refused)[2]. It's very loud from the red state types driving through with big diesel trucks and obnoxious motorcycles.

Most of the metro treats Downtown Boise as a parking lot[3]. The largest private land owner downtown is the power company (for parking lots)[4]. And the nature outside the city requires driving hours in a place that desperately needs less traffic pollution and more transit.

I'm pretty set on decamping to Boston soon to be in real tower in a city with transit.

[1] https://boisedev.com/news/2020/08/12/boise-idaho-home-sales-...

[2] https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/community/boise/ar...

[3] https://www.idahopress.com/news/local/eagle-narrows-where-ap...

[4] https://boisedev.com/news/2020/07/28/idaho-power-plans-to-co...

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#576

Post by readhn » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:31 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #315

blincoln wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, it seems similar in the Seattle area. Lots of people moving out of the big cities. I assume it's a combination of being able to work from home and people no longer being able to afford their incredibly expensive in-city homes due to furloughs and layoffs.

Except home prices are rocketing up rather than down ATM. If people are moving out, you’d think more of them would be selling their houses.

People who are moving out now - are mostly renters. Homeowners will move out when they lose their jobs and cant afford high mortgages.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#577

Post by autokad » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:32 AM UTC

jorblumesea wrote: post #332

blincoln wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, it seems similar in the Seattle area. Lots of people moving out of the big cities. I assume it's a combination of being able to work from home and people no longer being able to afford their incredibly expensive in-city homes due to furloughs and layoffs.

Seattle, I don't think as much, or even at all. Home and rent prices at least in Seattle seem stable or even increasing (for buying homes). Not clear why, maybe we're just behind the curve, or maybe it's because Seattle doesn't suffer from as serious of quality of life issues as SF area does.

I have been watching this and wondering the same thing. I think Seattle Washington's lack of city and state income tax is a huge plus and provides insulation. Contrast that with SF California of I think 1.50% + 7.25 - 12.3% taxes.

I wonder if a lot of Californians are coming to WA because of this

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#578

Post by sthatipamala » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

el-salvador wrote: post #488

TedShiller wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is only anecdotal evidence, but whenever I do have to go into SF for meetings, it's not a pleasant experience. I do feel for the suffering that is evident in the city. But having to literally step carefully over syringes and flecks of human feces everywhere makes my trips to SF a health hazard. Once I was about to sit down on BART when I noticed a syringe left jabbed into the seat cushion, with blood stil…

I’ve never been to SF, how often can one find abandoned syringes on the street or in public transport?

I encounter abandoned syringes and feces in the street multiple times daily. I’ve seen syringes in public transport less frequently, once or twice in 5 years here.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#579

Post by m_ke » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:36 AM UTC

ssalazar wrote: post #555

radicaldreamer wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in the short to medium term... the characteristics which make SF an attractive place to live (just like NYC) are resilient and sticky. If you consider a post-covid world 5 years from now, do you think that SF with it's museums, bars, restaurants, and proximity to nature will be an unattractive place to live? Do you think that remote-first/remote-only companies where the majority of employees are outside of the b…

Many of the bars, restaurants, and smaller cultural institutions will be gone. The larger, well-funded museums and nature will stay of course. But much of what is interesting about a city comes from the people who live there and shape its culture. The San Francisco of today is very different from 10 or 20 years ago, and will be very different 10 years from now. This is recoverable, sure, but its not guaranteed, and i…

I live in Brooklyn and have seen 2-3 business close a week around me. At this point almost every other storefront is vacant (many of which have been since before the pandemic). My hope is that this will bring down commercial real estate prices down significantly and create an opportunity for a lot more small businesses in a year or so, most of which I assume will be restaurants and other "experience" based shops.

The outdoor dining has been a great addition and it looks like it might become permanent [1], which would be a big plus for the city.

There's also a lot more people biking now and I'm hopeful that it will help shape future legislation to make the city even more bike friendly. (I went to 4 different bike shops around me and they were all sold out).

https://ny.eater.com/2020/8/3/21352532/outdoor-dining-extend...

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#580

Post by radicaldreamer » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:37 AM UTC

ssalazar wrote: post #555

radicaldreamer wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in the short to medium term... the characteristics which make SF an attractive place to live (just like NYC) are resilient and sticky. If you consider a post-covid world 5 years from now, do you think that SF with it's museums, bars, restaurants, and proximity to nature will be an unattractive place to live? Do you think that remote-first/remote-only companies where the majority of employees are outside of the b…

Many of the bars, restaurants, and smaller cultural institutions will be gone. The larger, well-funded museums and nature will stay of course. But much of what is interesting about a city comes from the people who live there and shape its culture. The San Francisco of today is very different from 10 or 20 years ago, and will be very different 10 years from now. This is recoverable, sure, but its not guaranteed, and i…

Absolutely, I totally agree. It's going to be really sad when we're out in a year (or two or three) and all those places that we went to and remember are no longer there because of this pandemic and ensuing lockdown.

But I think about the places (bars, restaurants, clubs, galleries, small shops) I visited almost a decade ago now when I first moved to SF and a bunch of those disappeared in the good times! They were displaced by rising commercial rents or a change in their clientele because of the rapid gentrification of neighborhoods and replaced, oftentimes with more kitsch stuff but sometimes with amazing restaurants or shops, which might not survive this lockdown.

San Francisco was once destroyed by a fire and has bounced back over and over again and I don't think this time will be different. It'll be different but not in the way people are panicking about in this thread and post.