> The ruling voided McGirt’s sentence of 1,000 years in prison but he could face a new trial in federal court rather than state court. Not changed by this ruling, but it strikes me as really odd that you can sentence someone to prison for that long, or that you would bother. Why not just say life in prison? If your state is 103 years old, saying anything about the next 1000 years seems ... lacking in credibility.
life in prison is usually reserved for capital crimes. But when someone acts so heinously, then they just tack on year after year. However, AFAIK, rape or even murder aren't federal crimes, unless the crime crossed state/tribal boundaries.
U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation
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Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation
#572Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a good question. I'm not a lawyer, but I think it would be problematic if Congress could make those decisions. That would allow them to de facto create ex post facto laws by contriving "interpretations" of past laws. It might incentivize intentionally ambiguous laws that allow them flexibility in the future. At that point, the Supreme Court would be in the very odd position of deciding whether something is a p…
Yeah, I agree. That could definitely get into some really sticky territory. I guess the other side is that a malevolent court could contrive those interpretations, and Congress would be only be able rectify the situation going forward. I don't know what the best solution is, but I guess I trust the Supreme Court more than I trust Congress. Still, it seems weird that Congress wouldn't get a say in determining what the…
That's true, although you might argue that Congress should be clearer when they write their laws to begin with.
Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation
#573Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I agree. That could definitely get into some really sticky territory. I guess the other side is that a malevolent court could contrive those interpretations, and Congress would be only be able rectify the situation going forward. I don't know what the best solution is, but I guess I trust the Supreme Court more than I trust Congress. Still, it seems weird that Congress wouldn't get a say in determining what the…
>I guess I trust the Supreme Court more than I trust Congress It's quite a damning indictment of US-style democracy that people trust a small cabal of unelected lifetime appointees without any meaningful oversight, over a larger pool of democratically elected officials.
Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation
#574I had the pleasure of driving through and visiting Oklahoma a decade or so ago. Some people don't like the rural states, but it felt so serene out there. We stopped at a shaved ice place off of some random exit and just sat there on the hood staring out at the plains. There's not much out there but it felt so peaceful. It felt like home.
I had a different feeling. It wasn't empty in the sense that the desert is, which is very pleasant and beautiful, but scarred with industrialized agriculture, and silos stretching out into the infinite surrounding. The fact that there was absolutely nothing at all as far as the eye can see, no mountain or woods, just field upon industrial field with no farm house or town in sight, felt extremely isolating and uncomfo…
What does this mean?
Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation
#575Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a good question. I'm not a lawyer, but I think it would be problematic if Congress could make those decisions. That would allow them to de facto create ex post facto laws by contriving "interpretations" of past laws. It might incentivize intentionally ambiguous laws that allow them flexibility in the future. At that point, the Supreme Court would be in the very odd position of deciding whether something is a p…
Yeah, I agree. That could definitely get into some really sticky territory. I guess the other side is that a malevolent court could contrive those interpretations, and Congress would be only be able rectify the situation going forward. I don't know what the best solution is, but I guess I trust the Supreme Court more than I trust Congress. Still, it seems weird that Congress wouldn't get a say in determining what the…
That's an interesting point that has me thinking.
My feeling on this is that this is actually as designed. Congress' job is to pass laws after writing them in whatever way they deem prudent. But Congress doesn't really have an interest in the enforcement of those laws, up until the point their constituents come to them and say "hey, this law y'all passed, it isn't really working out... do something to make it better". And if there's a dispute as to the enforcement of those laws, an independent third party (the judiciary) mediates and decides, as seems appropriate. But, again, Congress doesn't get involved there, because it's the executive's job to actually apply the law.
If Congress does get a say in interpretation, that means they could change their minds on existing law as political winds change, without going through the proper process of passing new legislation. They shouldn't get to do that, especially not for laws that are already on the books. That would amount to the power to write ex post facto laws, which are considered such a bad idea that they're expressly forbidden by the US Constitution. I think the risk of passing a law that gets interpreted in a wildly different way than Congress' intent isn't that high, and in cases where it does happen, it's usually because culture has fundamentally changed over time. Congress' remedy of passing a new law, but one that will only cover future cases, is a fair trade off, I think. And in cases where there's a big screw-up, I'd expect it would get noticed fairly quickly once cases start hitting the courts, so Congress would have the opportunity to fix things, but only have a short window of time where unintended consequences happen.
Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation
#576I found the conclusion compelling. I haven't yet had enough time this morning to read the dissent thoughtfully. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-9526_9okb.pdf "The federal government promised the Creek a reservation in perpetuity. Over time, Congress has diminished that reservation. It has sometimes restricted and other times expanded the Tribe’s authority. But Congress has never withdrawn the promised…
> Unlawful acts, performed long enough and with sufficient vigor, are never enough to amend the law And yet "adverse possession" allows my neighbor to keep a slice of my yard, because he build the fence shortly before I bought the house (while it was unoccupied!) and I assumed it was proper after I moved in, and now that I've had a survey done and realized his fence is 5' off target, it's too late because he official…
On what basis does he "officially own" it? Presumably there is a plat on file with your deed of title to your house and its lot that gives the boundaries of your lot, and another plat on file with your neighbor's deed of title to his house and its lot that shows the boundaries of his lot. Presumably both of those plats say the fence is on your property.
Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation
#577Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately, that precisely the opinion that the Romans came to as well.
Why is Rome important here? I can see the symmetry between Rome and what USA currently has - different rich powerful groups arguing and ignoring half the people, for example; rife corruption and nepotism - but how is Rome a model for a democracy, and one that seeks (in theory) not to divide the people into ruling and subservient classes at that?
Rome had many periods and the dynamics have played out before and provided disturbingly apt precedents even with the alien trappings and values.
Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation
#578I found the conclusion compelling. I haven't yet had enough time this morning to read the dissent thoughtfully. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-9526_9okb.pdf "The federal government promised the Creek a reservation in perpetuity. Over time, Congress has diminished that reservation. It has sometimes restricted and other times expanded the Tribe’s authority. But Congress has never withdrawn the promised…
>"Unlawful acts, performed long enough and with sufficient vigor, are never enough to amend the law." Based on this logic, I'm sure that the USA will be paying for all that tea they dumped in the harbor any day now...
Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation
#579Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good. The natives deserve a fair shake and the land is roomy enough for people to get along and work together. Forcing that is a damn good thing. The USA has a lot to account for, and it is very sick. Rough roads ahead. Maybe they lead to better places. I do not feel good about the last 4 or so decades of travel. As a people, maybe world, we may well be better for going down this road.
For the record I have a brother living on a native reservation. I am well aware of exactly how horrible our past and continuing treatment of the natives have been. And strongly support fixing our ongoing treatment of them. However I also strongly believe that our future prosperity is based more on current actions than past circumstances. And therefore believe that attempts to redress long past ills are actively harmf…
The decision doesn't mean he goes free. It means he gets a new trial in a Federal court. I expect the new trial will convict him and he'll just be serving more time in a Federal prison instead of the state prison where he has been for the past 20 years.
Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation
#580Unlawful acts, performed long enough and with sufficient vigor, are never enough to amend the law. To hold otherwise would be to elevate the most brazen and longstanding injustices over the law, both rewarding wrong and failing those in the right. I disagree with this reasoning. As a counterexample I point you to squatters rights. If I live on your land long and openly enough, my unlawful act will confer ownership of…
With squatters rights, there is a law that says if they squat long enough, they can gain legal rights to the property. Squatters are amending the law through action, the law that gives them eventual rights is already there.
There is no law that says if the federal government fails to live up to their promise long enough, it's no longer a legally binding promise.
The Court is saying that if Congress really wants to break the promise, Congress needs to express that with updated legislation.