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Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

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Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#571
post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why you are being downvoted. It seems that much of HN has very little knowledge of (and interest in) business operations and employment law in other countries. I see your question as genuinely inquiring about this stark difference from what is common in Europe and other countries.

In many countries, there is no concept of 'at will employment'. It is not surprising that HNers from such countries would be incredulous. Employment law in Europe, for example, frequently requires the severance terms to be determined at the time the employee is signed up. The employment agreement is a contract, and will be signed by all positions in the firm. In many cases, the severance terms are based on law. Among…

>Among other differences, for example, a German President is personally liable for the financial obligations of their company. If the company goes bankrupt, so does he.

In US new enterprise have a very high failure rate, how do entrepreneurs survive in such environment?

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#572
post #525
post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, companies are realizing that maybe they don't need to spend thousands of dollars for last minute business trips if they can just do a zoom meeting instead.

Personally I don’t think this is true. The entire sales team where I work is itching to be able to travel to potential customers again. They’re not at all satisfied with Zoom as a replacement.

Administrators above them though are beginning to see their desire to travel isn’t actual justified in greater business value, so their mere preference or their assertion is less likely to be believed.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#573

If Airbnb is willing to pay 14 weeks (3.25 months) of severance, they must believe this is going to go on significantly longer than that. Or they're using this as an opportunity to cut underperformers at the same time. Because if they believed things would start to recover by fall, wouldn't you just pay the people as normal and make a judgement call around then? You're spending the payroll money either way -- 14 week…

Airbnb employee here (opinions are my own)-- Brian Chesky referenced making decisions so that Airbnb would be able to weather a 1.5-2 year storm. It likely will take that long before travel begins to recover.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many countries, there is no concept of 'at will employment'. It is not surprising that HNers from such countries would be incredulous. Employment law in Europe, for example, frequently requires the severance terms to be determined at the time the employee is signed up. The employment agreement is a contract, and will be signed by all positions in the firm. In many cases, the severance terms are based on law. Among…

>Among other differences, for example, a German President is personally liable for the financial obligations of their company. If the company goes bankrupt, so does he. In US new enterprise have a very high failure rate, how do entrepreneurs survive in such environment?

Consider that perhaps new enterprises would not have as high of a failure rate.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You own a factory. Your employees don't. There's a power imbalance in the employment relationship. Most people (who don't own things like factories) need a regular, predictable, stable income to survive, and finding new employment is not always easy. Therefore, people in most developed countries have agreed that by taking on an employee, it is contingent on the employer to provide some guarantee of stability. This is…

> The USA is an aberration in this regard - even the workers seem to value the rights of the employers far above the rights of the employees. No one has a right to payment if they do not provide services.

Most CEO contracts in USA come have a golden parachute as far as I know.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#576
post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why you are being downvoted. It seems that much of HN has very little knowledge of (and interest in) business operations and employment law in other countries. I see your question as genuinely inquiring about this stark difference from what is common in Europe and other countries.

I didn't downvote the OP but I am picking up a tone of indignation that I don't quite understand. I find this pretty interesting. Here is my take on the situation: Let's say I own a widget factory and you are highly skilled at turning paper clips into widgets. We agree on a price for your time and I hire you to start making widgets. Things are going gangbusters, you produce a ton of widgets and I pay you for the time…

It cuts both ways.

I live in the UK. Here the obligation is symmetric. All my recent work has been on 90 day terms. That is, if either I or the employer wish the contract to end normally that requires 90 days of notice unless both parties agree otherwise.

My most recent employer decided their costs were too high compared to projected income, so they gave me 90 days notice back in 2019.

At that point I knew that in 90 days I won't have a job. I could start looking for a new job, able to tell any prospective employer that I can start on day D+90. I would still get paid, as usual, and my employer was entitled to insist that I continue to work as usual.

In fact of course they gave me garden leave, I guess that's probably an alien term in the US too? Garden leave means that the 90 day term still applies, you still work for them not anybody else, and they still pay you fully - but your employer thinks it would be best (for example because they're scared you will sabotage things, poach customers, or steal trade secrets) that you do not come to the office or use their computers and thus you cannot do your job.

I'm very awkward so I pointed out that they're short of cash, rather than having too many engineers, and so since I wasn't doing anything else I kept working, although I will admit I wasn't exactly the most motivated team member since I knew I was terminated. They had to go re-enable my git access, AWS access and so on, which had been severed when I went in to be told I was fired. Very amusing.

Now, let's roll back to my previous job. I'd been essentially head-hunted, I informed that employer that I'd be leaving, triggering the 90 day notice. I was actually at their offices at the time, (I usually work from home) and I informed them that I'd be available until close-of-play to negotiate the exact details. They got right down to the wire but eventually sent someone to work it out, and we agreed I would spend the notice period spinning up people who'd been brought in to learn what I do, and that I wouldn't take my vacation days, but I would actually leave on D+85 not D+90.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#577

If Airbnb is willing to pay 14 weeks (3.25 months) of severance, they must believe this is going to go on significantly longer than that. Or they're using this as an opportunity to cut underperformers at the same time. Because if they believed things would start to recover by fall, wouldn't you just pay the people as normal and make a judgement call around then? You're spending the payroll money either way -- 14 week…

When Warren Buffett completely divests Berkshire Hathaway of all airline stocks, as he recently did, I think it's a reasonable bet that travel is going to be down for a while.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#578
post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why you are being downvoted. It seems that much of HN has very little knowledge of (and interest in) business operations and employment law in other countries. I see your question as genuinely inquiring about this stark difference from what is common in Europe and other countries.

In many countries, there is no concept of 'at will employment'. It is not surprising that HNers from such countries would be incredulous. Employment law in Europe, for example, frequently requires the severance terms to be determined at the time the employee is signed up. The employment agreement is a contract, and will be signed by all positions in the firm. In many cases, the severance terms are based on law. Among…

So Scott Koegh is personally on the hook for the debt of Volkswagen?

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You own a factory. Your employees don't. There's a power imbalance in the employment relationship. Most people (who don't own things like factories) need a regular, predictable, stable income to survive, and finding new employment is not always easy. Therefore, people in most developed countries have agreed that by taking on an employee, it is contingent on the employer to provide some guarantee of stability. This is…

Nobody is stopping you from owning a factory. The workers are also free to leave anytime without any notice or responsibility to the employer. This is a flexible arrangement for both parties that focuses on individual freedom and responsibility. It also helps make it easy for entrepreneurs to start companies and create jobs in the US and is a direct reason why we don't see the same innovation in regulation-heavy regi…

The total amount of land is relatively fixed on human time scales. Given that, everyone who owns a factory (or any land) does make it more difficult for you to own a factory.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#580
post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think European dev market is a lot more complex than that; if you work in Zurich or London, do contracting, work for a major bank etc then the market is way different for you than if you do (say) PHP as an employee of a non-software company in Berlin. The baseline is decently middle class with a solid safety net but there's a lot more room at the top than you're making out IMHO. As always, to make cash as a "workin…

Zurich and London top out at $100k, any more and we're talking managerial responsibilities. Compared to SF or SEA they are only paying ~25% market rate. The safety net argument has no legs. Australia and Canada both have social benefits that far exceed the majority of EU nations, yet pre-pandemic there was no shortage of $150k+ dev roles.

I had an offer in London as a dev in finance at ~300k GBP total comp and a Series B startup offer over 100k GBP and that was more than 4 years ago. Ended up going with a much smaller seed-stage company in Berlin because I couldn't stomach the finance people and liked Berlin.
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