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Not everyone has an internal monologue

ryanandrewlangdon.wordpress.com

571–580 of 904 posts

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#571
post #314

I have a serious question to people here describing themselves (as I understand it) as thinking in words and whole sentences: How can you think about concepts which cannot be put into words or for which no words exist? Do you have to come up with elaborate verbal descriptions of abstract concepts in your head before you can think about them? If so, don't you think that any verbal description is essentially incomplete…

I can only speak for myself apparently(I had no clue some people didn't have "conversations" in their head) but I can do both.

Frequently I will have "hunches" or "gut feelings" and so no that I can't put into words. Since this is HN, I will say that frequently occurs with programming. Sometimes a bit of code, or design, or decision will not site right with me. I can't explain it to myself internally or to others.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be like that, and it was helpful in many ways as I seemed to always be ready for wherever a conversation might go. But I wasn't living in the moment. Now I actively stop myself from simulating the various branches of potential conversations. It feels good to live in the moment (shaking my head a little when I feel it starting helps). The downside is that I don't have as many prepared responses and am more e…

Why is it a bad thing for your brain to be running DFS all the time? Is it a wasteful use of time? Does it cause behavioral issues? Is it a personal choice? Or...?

I think it's the personal/interpersonal version of "real artists ship". I am one of those people that spends too much time in his head. It's mostly wasted energy if I never pause and let the thoughts out.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a left/right brain split specific thing or is there another thing going on? ever explore it? I can do neither of these things. One voice dominates, self speaking, reading, listening to another person talk to me - the rest of them get 'left behind'.

I think it's just practice. I used to be an internal monologue reader into my 20s until I worked to not be one(because I wanted to increase my reading speed). Maybe I was neurally set up to achieve this - I am strongly left handed and have been told by many people they dont understand my thought process on things(not in a bad way, just sort of "where the heck did you come up with that") throughout my life. Just start…

I switch between the two. If I'm having trouble fully grokking something, I have to resort to the "read and recite every word in my head" method.

Most of the time, I speed read and seem to somehow use another system to take in the information. I usually just absorb the important bits. When speed reading I can definitely simultaneously carry on other conversations much more easily than when I'm internal monologue reading, but one or both is still going to suffer to some degree, for me. That's super impressive if you can really maintain both at 100% simultaneously.

I work in information security, and often rely on the speed reading approach when trying to determine if something is legitimate or not within a sea of noise. For example, there was a malware alert that triggered on a giant JavaScript blob. These alerts are often false positives (or "benign true positives"). My co-worker prettified it and asked me to help take a look. In total, it took up about 20 or 30 screen heights. I took his mouse and just started rapidly scrolling and scanning for anything suspicious-looking, and after a few seconds he looked at me like I was insane and asked how I could possibly analyze the code like that.

I was able to vet it as "very likely clean" in about 10-15 seconds, while it took him several minutes of mentally processing every character in every line. That said, this is kind of like an inverted bloom filter: if there's a match, it's definitely a true positive, but if I don't see anything suspicious, there's some small chance of a false negative. So I "hit the bloom filter" first as a kind of efficient cache. If there's a match, then I've saved a lot of time. If there's no match, and if it's important that I need to be 100% certain with my conclusion, I make the full "database call" (line-by-line read).

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#574

Unfathomable to me. My mind is constantly racing, playing out different conversations, interviewing myself in a variety of roles to navigate my thoughts on things (one day I'm the president of the US talking about foreign policy, another day I'm a big tech CEO navigating the diversity questions). I constantly have something in my ears to tune myself out, podcasts or music. After being diagnosed w/ ADHD I realize I'm…

I used to be like that, and it was helpful in many ways as I seemed to always be ready for wherever a conversation might go. But I wasn't living in the moment. Now I actively stop myself from simulating the various branches of potential conversations. It feels good to live in the moment (shaking my head a little when I feel it starting helps). The downside is that I don't have as many prepared responses and am more e…

That sounds like hell to me. I don't have an internal monolog. I think in visuals. I am a quiet person. I am a better programmer for it I think. I visualize the structure of a program I am writing and pair programming would also be hell for me.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#575

Unfathomable to me. My mind is constantly racing, playing out different conversations, interviewing myself in a variety of roles to navigate my thoughts on things (one day I'm the president of the US talking about foreign policy, another day I'm a big tech CEO navigating the diversity questions). I constantly have something in my ears to tune myself out, podcasts or music. After being diagnosed w/ ADHD I realize I'm…

My thinking was...

1. Each time I review a concept or memory it lost information, so the most "honest" conception of something I could have was an unblemished impression lightly touched.

2. So can I just let feelings and thoughts flow around without letting it turn into words?

3. I found that while my comprehension didn't appreciably decrease, I still did fine in classes and homework, I had more trouble explaining concepts to other people.

So I conclude that for certain kinds of thinking it is important to recite it to fine tune your presentation. For others, for most, it is best to let them flow without much attachment.

I now tend to use writing for formal thought consolidation since it's less lossy and forces me to follow things from beginning to end. It required me practicing for half a year to stop myself from trying to formulate my opinions in words. Now I only do it if it's an opinion I want to express.

I don't know if it's possible to train in the other direction, though I've never heard voices other than my own internal voice so maybe I'm in the minority. Maybe a subset can hear only one voice, some hear nothing, most hear many?

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#576
post #128

The "inner dialogue" is called the default mode network in neuroscience. It doesn't have to be thinking in "words" necessarily; you could also skip the words and still be thinking in a resting state. It serves the purpose of ruminating, reflecting on memories, doing introspection. Paradoxically, your brain actually consumes more calories doing this type of resting thinking than you do in task-oriented thought, like w…

If you think you are having no default mode activity, you are likely fooling yourself. It is externally observable when humans have a quieter default mode, through subtleties of behavior, one can notice a calming presence, like that of non-linguistic animals. Even without language, default processing loops can be quite complex, not even taking into account multiple diverse parallel processes. Inner dialog can be very…

> But in an evolutionary way, thinking "I can survive" in a perilous situation, likely outweighs thinking "wtf I am I doing w/ my life?"

My hypothesis is that the inner dialog genes proliferated by providing higher status. People with an inner dialog are more likely to be charismatic, entertaining, etc. because they are constantly practicing without knowing it. Think the prehistoric version of a big account on twitter. I can't imagine it's possible to become a successful writer, elected politician, or a war general without having internal dialog genes.

The externalization via devices will just magnify this effect.

Whenever something is highly selected for in isolation, there tends to be a long tail of unforeseen consequences. (See: sickle cell.) Some people will have too much of it and end up with some type of schizophrenia or schizoid state that puts them in fake dream worlds. If you get a lot of these people together in a room, you could make them believe some crazy stuff with the same conviction as ours in gravity. (How religion started?)

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I specifically avoid viral earworm songs because I am very prone to getting them stuck in my head. I can have the same song playing "in the background" non-stop in my mind for days. I have songs in my dreams and I'll wake up with them still playing in my head. Sometimes it will just be a single bar of a song, or just a piece of it looping. To this day, I have never once listened to "Chocolate Rain" or Rebecca Black's…

I also get ear worms, although not as bad as you seem to get them. One trick that works for me is to over-saturate your brain with it. Got an annoying song on your mind? Find it in spotify, put on headphones, and listen to it on repeat until you're sick of it.

Funny anecdote. Back when I worked at EA, a couple of guys hacked together a system to share music on the internal LAN. (This was before the days of Spotify and friends.) Everyone would put their ripped albums on it and anyone could listen to anyone's stuff. It was pretty rad.

They also added some metrics tracking so you could look people up and see how many different albums they'd listened to, how many times, etc. There were leaderboards for who could cover the most stuff.

I thought it would be funny to "win" by listening to "Butterfly" by Smile.dk[0] more than any other song had been listened to. It listened to it on a loop for weeks. I, for reasons I cannot really explain years later, actually did listen to it and not just let it play at zero volume. It was a weird experiment in neurological satiation. At some point, it no longer annoyed because it just was, like the sound of my own heartbeat.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzcvRDWgRIE

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#578
post #65

I dream up movies and songs and all sorts of rich fantasies in my head, and I do this constantly. As a consequence of this, I never get bored as I've got an incredible imagination to lean on. I think about movies I want to make, startups I want to create, the change I want to put into the world. New songs on my commute, goals I want to accomplish, what I could do with time travel. I'm always working on the structures…

I used to have such an imagination when I was young: before going to sleep, I would always reimagine the movies I just watched or the books I just read, factoring myself into the story (often as a coprotagonist, not particularly OP but helpful in many ways), sometimes going a bit meta trying to explain my presence to the characters, tweaking their response, trying not to trigger the obvious self-doubting panic that w…

The first part of your comment reads like my own thoughts. I still find myself incorporate new fictions into my mental canon. Over time the framework has changed significantly, but its roots are still noticable. Some of my earliest memories are of me playing around with this fantastical dreamscape. Nowadays I generally dive into these sorts of day dreams whenever I'm walking/biking alone, or showering. Music or white noise can help me get into it more.

Neural interfaces will be a game changer. I'm so excited for them.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LSD only gives temporary relief and is hard to get. Shroons might be a better route.

Luckily legal prodrugs of LSD exist, compounds which metabolize into LSD before reaching the brain like 1P-LSD and ALD-52. In the United States, you can order these off the clearnet without fear of legal repercussions, unlike shrooms. (although psilocin has its own collection of legal prodrugs available including, for example, 5-MeO-DMT and 4-HO-MET).

A lot of that stuff is toxic. People take these drug analogues, get sick, then blame the base molecule their government scared them from getting. Anything that's a prodrug has to be processed by your liver first. It puts extra strain on your liver, whereas the original molecule is already what you wanted.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#580
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe I am similar. I have often thought that I would not consider locked-in-syndrome to be as bad as others express as a worse-than-death fate. I think I would just happily continue wandering within my meandering mind. I think it is detrimental to achieving things though. Actually doing things takes far more discipline and that's time that could be used for coming up with more internal ideas. As a side note to t…

Yeah, if you don't have images you probably don't have sound. Thinking mind only.

I don't have images but I can easily play back a song in my head so I think I have sound.
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